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Thread: Muggy Weld?

  1. #1
    dan barr is offline Plastic
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    Default Muggy Weld?

    I am looking at possibly welding some aluminum hinges to aluminum square tubing. I would also be welding some small tabs to the aluminum tubing to receive a detent ring pin. (since i cant find connectors to do the same things as what i want)

    What is the proper product that will weld aluminum and give em the strength required when welding a hinge to two four foot pieces of aluminum tubing? Is Muggy Weld a good product?

    weight supported would be ~30 lbs across the 8' length.

    thanks

    dan
    Last edited by dan barr; 09-19-2011 at 03:07 AM. Reason: accuracy

  2. #2
    307startup is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan barr View Post
    I am looking at possibly welding some aluminum hinges to aluminum square tubing. I would also be welding some small tabs to the aluminum tubing to receive a detent ring pin. (since i cant find connectors to do the same things as what i want)

    What is the proper product that will weld aluminum and give em the strength required when welding a hinge to two four foot pieces of aluminum tubing? Is Muggy Weld a good product?

    weight supported would be ~30 lbs across the 8' length.

    thanks

    dan
    Fucksakes...are you kidding me? What KIND of aluminum? If you can't tell me what kind it is, how can you even be sure it IS aluminum?

    Muggy Weld is fucking garbage, kinda like most of your posts. If you can't tell the difference between a wannabe soldering product with an actual welding process, you sure as the fuck won't be able to tell if welding will accomplish what you want.

    Mig or Tig processes would work fine, depending on what kind of aluminum you've got. My guess is it's 6061 or 6063 since those are "architectural" grades, and that's precisely what you're hoping to accomplish with your half-assed statement above.

  3. #3
    dan barr is offline Plastic
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    Default crikey!

    307,

    you know, I am on this forum because I DONT KNOW THIS SHIT!!! if you want to act like an ass, that's fine. Meanwhile, I will look up Mig and Tig and figure out where i can get/use/rent one of these things. ..... in other words, i am happy to accept your advice, but i can do without your bullshit.

    I intend to use the basic aluminum square tubing you can buy at home depot. I need to build a portable photo booth for a friend of mine for cheap as possible.

    i've been wasting time searching for the connectors on my other post and suffering you jumping to conclusions in thinking that I want a free answer and have not done the homework.

    I will use youre mig/tig info and i will chaff the rest of your bullshit.

    thanks,

    dan
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  4. #4
    Heavey Metal is online now Titanium
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    I see you have met the village idiot dont pay him no mind.

  5. #5
    DaveE907 is offline Titanium
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    Consider pop-rivits to attach the hinges. Home Depot has them.

  6. #6
    new_guy is offline Aluminum
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    Default

    I second pop rivets, welding would be over the top, expensive, and frustrating if you can not already weld

    This is a nice forum can we please keep the chatter civil

  7. #7
    dan barr is offline Plastic
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    Default pop rivets

    will pop rivets withstand the set-up/teardown of the frame 200+ times per year by uncaring individuals?

    If so, then this is great new for me. If not, then what is the cheapest aluminum capable mig welder? (120 volts, 1 phase.... that i can plug in to the outlet in my garage)

    Also, should i go stick or wire feed for welding aluminum? this will be 1/20" thick or 1/16" thick aluminum from home depot. hinges will probably 1/8" thick

    thanks for your advice. you too 307. I am looking at mig welders because of you.

    dan

  8. #8
    S_W_Bausch is offline Diamond
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    200 times a year? If this product has anything to do with personal safety, your concern isn't the joining process.

    It's the PLI

    Property Liability Insurance.

    If you can't pony up 2000-3000 for the welding process equipment, find a good welder, or have your credit card limit raised.

    Don't let anyone watch you, even through the reflections off the wall, off the eyeglassses, etc. Get the observer out of the room, or behind a shade 9 or shade 10 welding glass. "Just close your eyes, and hold this in place" is asking for trouble.

    Your emergency room costs from "It feels like I have sand in my eyes" will not be what your limited budget can tolerate.

    Anything else is just a lesson in frustration. Are the bad welds an issue of your talent, or the crappy equipment?

    Go with Miller, or perhaps Lincoln, or perhaps what future respondents will suggest.

  9. #9
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    Ranchero50 is offline Cast Iron
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan barr View Post
    I intend to use the basic aluminum square tubing you can buy at home depot. I need to build a portable photo booth for a friend of mine for cheap as possible.
    Photo booth just brings to mind a commercially available white pop up canopy that you can put a frame on for backdrops. 10x10 or 12x12 self supporting would be about the simplest and cheapest way to go. Might have to do some work to deal with the lighting etc.

    I think you need to define cheap...
    Jamie

  10. #10
    jamscal is offline Hot Rolled
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    He's probably talking about the newish fad of renting a portable photobooth for weddings and other events.

    The photobooth company/guy shows up, sets up booth that includes a camera, touch screen and photo printer in a box. Customers get to take basically unlimited pics and choose via touchscreen.

    I built parts for a few of them out of aluminum tube, and got to see the whole thing in action.

    Pretty good idea for a small business, the guy I dealt with is doing well and franchising now, from what I hear.

    His had a bench and also allowed for stand up pics, and had a curtain around the perimeter, rather than a fixed back.

    His prototype was somewhat crude, but workable, and he rented that out from the start.

    -----------

    Tig welding is what you'll want, and you'll need someone to weld it for you if you don't know how.

    If they're getting $700/event here in Louisville for a booth rental, someone needs to pay some real money to do it right.

    FWIW there are a million ways to do the same thing here. We've had about three different sets of people here wanting to build photobooths over the past year, and one of them had plans with the 80/20 extrusions.

    -James

  11. #11
    johnl is offline Cast Iron
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    I have never seen one of the things, but for those who have, Is it possible to rig the thing up with PVC Tubing? You can take 1" and build most any light weight frame if support is not an issue. Take 1 1/4" tubing split in half lenghtwise and then cut to 1 or 2" lengths and use as clips to hold fabric or paper etc. on the 1" frame work. This would be fast and cheap.
    John L

  12. #12
    MichaelP is offline Titanium
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan barr View Post
    ... what is the cheapest aluminum capable mig welder? (120 volts, 1 phase.... that i can plug in to the outlet in my garage)

    Also, should i go stick or wire feed for welding aluminum? this will be 1/20" thick or 1/16" thick aluminum from home depot. hinges will probably 1/8" thick
    ...
    Dan, since you've never welded aluminum, this would be the worst time to try. It takes quite a bit of skills and knowledge, especially, when you deal with thin walls.

    So either connect everything mechanically or find an experienced welder to do the job.

  13. #13
    courtiron is offline Aluminum
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    Default fasterners alternative

    You might try Thread-Serts. They install like a pop rivet, and would lend themselves to disassembly.

    see:
    Steel Klik Thread-Sert Kit Model 39314 | Fastenal

    really doesn't sound like the time for a crash course in aluminum welding.

    Good luck

    paul
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  14. #14
    307startup is offline Hot Rolled
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    Dan Barr is an obviously intelligent individual, if you guys would look at the fitting he drew up for another thread that he wants to purchase. It takes brains to be able to figure out something like that with no machining/fabricating background.

    That being said, he's already shown a lack of interest in off-the-shelf PVC/EMT tent & canopy fittings because he says they don't look "professional".

    I think he'd be pleasantly surprised if he purchased them, then had his EMT and fittings powder-coated. A little bit of tape on the mating ends of the EMT and some silicone plugs in the openings of the fittings to prevent powder build-up on those surfaces would produce a very professional looking set-up that could handle even the most unskilled labor assembling them.

    Cheap to boot.
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  15. #15
    BadBeta is offline Stainless
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    Hi Dan,

    If you want it to look professional you might not want to use some dodgy soldering, or show off your first aluminium welds.

    Why don't you do as others when they need a cabinett or enclosure of some kind which can be easily setup and moved; use an aluminium extrusion system. Lots of different suppliers, standard parts, and a well established concept for everything from booths to factory automation robot setups.

    Try to google "aluminium profile extrusion system" or something like that. Just to get a look you can go to "http://www.valuframe.co.uk/", although that particular one is in the UK.

  16. #16
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    awake is offline Stainless
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    Dan,

    While it is true that 307 unloaded on you, it is also true that you are asking professionals a lot of questions that reveal an awful lot of ignorance. To think that you will go out and buy a MIG or worse yet a TIG machine -- cheaply -- and then do professional-looking welds in aluminum simply takes my breath away.

    If you are into photography, think of someone coming into a professional photography forum and asking about making professional quality poster-size pictures using a cheap point-and-shoot 2 megapixel digital camera and a $50 inkjet printer. Folks have generally been very patient with you, but it might be time for you to learn more of what you are really asking for.

    And don't overlook the fact that you are getting into the territory of asking professionals to help you design and/or plan out your production. Sort of like going up to a doctor at a party and saying, "hey, while you're here, how about checking on my _____" (fill in the blank with your favorite ailment). The doctor might smile politely and agree to do so, but at some point he/she is likely to say, "you do know that I normally expect to be paid for this?"

    Just for the record, I am not a professional machinist -- I am a hobbyist who appreciates the vast knowledge available on this forum, and tries not to abuse the privilege of soaking it up.

  17. #17
    IronReb is offline Stainless
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    Dan,as others have mentioned,welding aluminum is tricky.You have a nice puddle going then all of a sudden if you are not very careful the whole mess will melt down right in front of your eyes before you have a chance to even say WTF!!.

    If you wanna try any way and have access to a regular stick rod welder there is such a thing as aluminum welding rods,they work great UNLESS you are welding on very thin material then like any other welding rod on thin stuff it will burn holes in the material unless you are skilled enough at spot welding.

    Your best bet is to gather the material you want,find a job shop set up for welding aluminum,pay them for an hour or two shop rate and be done.In the long run this would be your cheapest way out versus buying all kinds of crap you will most likely only use once,or even at all once you see how difficult it can be.
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  18. #18
    Ciszewski's Avatar
    Ciszewski is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan barr View Post
    thanks for your advice. you too 307. I am looking at mig welders because of you.dan
    Hello Dan barr
    Air Liquide has a sale on, check this out.
    Air Liquide Fall Promo Online Catalogue
    Millermatic 252 $2339
    Spoolmatic 30A $1259
    Almig gas $140
    Oh yeah, don't forget a spool of AL wire, coveralls, boots, welding helmet, leathers(jacket, apron, gloves), beanie,....
    Forget about the beanie, I'm sure if you buy a complete package, they might throw a few in for free.
    And after you lay down $4500, you'll be a welder.

  19. #19
    dan barr is offline Plastic
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    Default thank you all

    all,

    I do appreciate all the advice and I am fully aware of my ignorance. I am a hobbyist woodworker primarily. I do understand that I am asking advice from seasoned, experienced people who don't suffer fools. I am not a fool, i am just mostly ignorant. I can take all the gruff BS you can dish out and more and not get my feelings hurt. My brother and I go round and round all day. 9mostly because we're too busy trying to talk and neither of us is trying to listen. ten minutes later, we'll crack a beer and bullshit about fishing or whatever.

    You cant stump me with a concept. I will look it up and read about it and KNOW it very quickly. That is not to say that I will have the EXPERIENCE necessary to MASTER the APPLICATION of the concept in PRACTICE. I know the difference between those as well.

    I grew up in a junkyard in Alabama and have been mechanically inclined from an early age. playing with nuts, bolts, shapes, geometry, etc. comes easy. This is not to say that I am anywhere near a machinist or other skilled laborer/professional/engineer. I do however pull off some decent stuff from time to time. I pick up skills as i need them and I get as close to perfecting those skills as the job requires or the time allows. I am a jack of all trades, but i tend to stick to woodworking... for the time being.

    I'm not the best welder. I might be a little better than the average guy. My work with welders is not anywhere near professional grade. I would practice a lot before touching the production piece. However, I am not a big fan of employing a new skill for finish work without mastery.

    Right now, the welder has some allure because I want a welder and would occasionally use it for some personal projects. I do agree that my skills are not to the level that would enable me to produce the professional product i envision; especially with aluminum.

    I intend to make this photo booth without any parts that are detachable or easily lost. Yes i know that detent ring pins will detach if DELIBERATELY removed from the ring.

    Right now, rivets or maybe nuts and bolts are the most feasible things if they can withstand 200 setups/teardowns per year.

    I will look up the systems/products mentioned and see if those present suitable alternatives.

    I appreciate the advice.

    thanks

    dan

  20. #20
    dan barr is offline Plastic
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    thanks for the humorous quip.

    i wont be buying $4500 worth of equipment. If anything, i would buy the lincoln easy mig 140 for $550 and the wire feed accessory for another $200 Why? because that's the highest qaulity rig out there! LOL

    However, i've already got a helmet, boots, gloves, leather apron........ and at least one beanie. and just to add to all that cool stuff that obviously makes me a welder, I can say that i have welded before too.



    dan
    Last edited by dan barr; 09-19-2011 at 11:52 PM.

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