Syncrowave 250DX cooler circuit blues
Background Syncrowave 250DX, bought around 2004 (??) new for a plant I worked in. Worked perfectly. Likely less than 20hrs of actual weld time total. I bought it at the auction when the plant closed. Sat for approx 4 yrs, 2008 until now, its wired and ready to go. This version has a cooler inside the case of the machine on the LH side, newer models have a "runner" cooler which is completely below the main cabinet.
Started my first weld and got the HLP-19 fault which is a cooler flow fault about 3 seconds after striking the first arc.
This is a water flow fault, no flow indicated.
Fairly simple circuit, tank to screen filter, to pump, to torch, to cooler, to pressure switch, back to tank.
There is a manual function where the pump and cooler fan are forced to run by holding the "process" button. The display indicates CLR and when water flow is verified, you get a "FLo" reading back.
Checked filter, cracked connections, seem to have good flow everywhere. Attempted to remove the pressure switch, I twisted off the plastic thread and had to order a new one from Miller, $17.
Pressure switch sits in a brass Tee, the output connection has a 1/16" orifice which builds pressure inside of the tee.
Installed new pressure switch this morning. On the very first try I got "Flo" but thats the only time it has worked. Tried various troubleshooting steps including visually verifying flow out thru the orifice, shoots a several inch stream out. Jumpered switch contacts on the pressure switch and immediately get the "Flo". Have 5vdc carrier signal on one wire, so the circuit has voltage. I plug the output port with my thumb and it immediately returns "Flo". Filter screen is very clear, very few cruddies but extremely minimal. Have used the Miller branded blue coolant/antifreeze from the start. The coolant does not seem "gummy" at all. Verified the lines going to and from the torch arent kinked.
Not sure what to do next.
Other ideas are blow out the cooler circuit with air but I would want to proceed gingerly as to not blow out pump seal, etc on the low-pressure system.
Part of me says jumper the switch and do some welding to build up some heat and see if that aids in dissolving a potential blockage...but don't want to melt down either.
Thought of some sort of flush/solvent but I don't really like that idea either due to potential of pump seals damaged etc.
I like your idea about bypassing the switch temporarily to get the thing out of its deep sleep. If things start to get hot from a actual blockage of flow you will feel it in the torch real soon...let that be your early warning system.
I have heard of problems with the old integral cooler models. You might want to check with Miller on that.
How about disconnecting the torch and hoses completely , use a short hose to complete the loop ? Maybe the hoses are faulty, like a flapper in the hose ?
I did a little bit of welding, probably about 4" of fillet, got the parts red hot going slow, no problems sensed on the torch, but still no love on the pressure switch confirmation.
Mark, I would like to do what you suggest but the connections are a seemingly oddball LH thread....
Will see if I can get to Miller, my fear is they are going to say, get to your dealer, and despite the pain of getting the heavy beast out of the deepest corner of the shop, the dealer is going to want $$$$$....
If I understand correctly from your posting, your machine turns the cooler on when an arc is struck. Is that correct?
I have a Syncrowave 200 and I run a separate cooler all of the time that the machine power is on. I plug it into one of the two 120 VAC outlets on the front of the machine. I also have a pressure gauge and a visible return on the torch line which I check each time I weld.
If indeed the cooler runs only when the torch is used, I wonder if you could somehow separate the cooler from the machine and run it continuously?
Just some thoughts.
If its like the one at work its a diaphragm pump. Diaphragms after sitting will take a bit of a set and not develop full flow/ pressure. Same goes for the rubber flap valves. Good news is its a std diaphragm pump. its one of the Shurflow line, cant remember the exact modle number but the pump head is very rebuild able and for minimal costs. That's buying parts not from the OEM but from the pump places! That said you could always stick a small pressure gauge on that tee and check the line pressure, if you have good pressure and flow from the return on the torch i would not sweat being a few PSI short.
You may have a bad pump. It's just not developing enough flow to get the pressure high enough to trip the switch. These things did not work very well.
The pump is a little procon rotary pump. Not sure if they can be rebuilt.
Pump looks like $350 to replace......wondering if there's an "engineering upgrade" to fix historic problems. I've attempted to join the forum at Millerwelds but my registration hasnt been accepted yet.
I'm going to carefully blow thru a couple of the lines, think I'm going to use it like that for now, against my best judgement, but at least I've verified flow. Don't like having the covers and 87 bolts sitting around taking up valuable space...
Mine's on an 1/8" thick 6061 plate tank that I O/A welded together because I didn't have a tank hooked up for the TIG to use.
Can you post the details of which Procon pump and what motor you are using? It appears it is out of a carbonation machine.
I looked into the Procon stuff a couple years ago but I got bogged down pretty quickly with all the different varieties they had. There are a lot of different pressure/volume combos available.
Originally Posted by Michael Moore
Yeah, they have all sorts of models. That's not a problem, really, if you get a series 1, which is the first of their series. Although they can put out up to 250 psi, they are adjustable down to 50 psi or less and 15 gallons per hour. The one you want will have a filter and a pressure adjustment on the side. You can open the cap and set the relief valve way down. I use about 55 psi and I didn't worry about the flow since it's more than enough. In 15 + years, I've not had a leak due to over pressure.
The one that you want will have a 3/16" thick flat blade that fits into the matching carbonator motor that's pretty much standard. I use a 1/3 hp motor with a slot drive that fits the procon. Some pumps also have a slot like the motor instead of the flat blade. There is a coupler that you can get to adapt that type also. Grainger sells them and you can find those on eBay as well. The coupling clamp is standard and holds the pump to the motor. The motors, pumps and clamps are on eBay all of the time at great prices.
I bought three NOS 1/3 hp carbonator motors for $40 apiece when I was building my cooler. The Grainger links below shows what the motors and pumps look like, but they are available elsewhere much cheaper. I got all of my pumps and motors on eBay at good prices.
I hope this helps.
Motor, 1/3 HP, Carbonate - Carbonator Pump Motors - Definite Purpose Motors - 3K068 : Grainger Industrial Supply
Search procon pump - Grainger Industrial Supply
The engineering upgrade was abandoning the design.
Originally Posted by matt_isserstedt
The pump from what I remember, and from looking at the manual which confirms what I thought, is that the pump is a custom unit for the machine. A lot smaller than the standard carbonator pumps and I think the pump is somewhat integrated with the housing of the motor.
Nothing resembles it on the Procon site, so it may have been someone else who made it, but I could have swore i was a procon.
Its probably been over 5 years since I have seen inside one now.
Hi ... first post ... just had to weigh in. I had to wait 'til today for registration to be approved.
Please do a little test before scrapping the motor. The switch "Carrier" voltage sounds like 5 V. When the pressure switch is activated (when coolant flow/pressure has made it around the complete coolant loop) ; it should Ground that circuit pulling the 5V down to ground. If the ground on the switch is not solid; the switch may close and not "pull" that 5V down to ground. If the electronics do not see the 5 V "go Low" you have no flow. Confirm the switch ground before you scrap the motor. If the ground is good, and the switch does not activate and pull the 5V low when you have flow ... the electrics are OK; but the switch calibration pressure or the pressure from the pump are suspect.
Another test (and this assumes the switch is still calibrated correctly) to confirm the need for a pump ... If the switch does not close with flow evident; block the outlet going back to the tank ... the pressure then should build up and close the switch. This would confirm that the pump is weak and not getting the job done.
I'd hate to have you change the pump , but for a bad/loose ground at the pressure switch.
I had a similar problem ~6 months ago. The pump seemed to pump to the flow specification in the manual, and I could blow through the hose but still I got the FLO error.
I jumped the pressure switch, and sure enough, the torch overheated.
Eventually i found that there are two "bi directional check valves" in the couplers where the torch attaches to the welder cabinet. They were not evident in the parts diagrams. I took these apart, and they were plugged solid with copper wire and sediment. The copper wire came from a cable that was disintigrating. The check valves are intended to prevent all of the coolant from running out when the torch is disconnected. THe valves are built more like two back to back relief valves than check valves.
I replaced mine because some of the brass was eroded, but they can be disassembled and cleaned. Miller changed the design since the machine was built.
There is a post here somewhere about the topic, look for "bi directional check valve" or something like it.
Newman109 , thanks for the extra details on the pump/motor. I think in the earlier discussions I never got the "look for a series 1 pump" info and no one had a good number for the PSI/volume needed so I couldn't sort out which pumps were (or were not) suitable.
I'll have to start watching eBay. Having a quiet (or just quieter) pump would be very nice!
It might not hurt to make a loop back hose out and right in. Make sure your touch is not messes up either.