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  1. #1
    muleworks is offline Cast Iron
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    What is the average price for a 40 ton and 50 ton ironworker. Not too picky with names, scotman, edwards, ect.
    Thanks
    Chris

  2. #2
    snowman is offline Diamond
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    depends on how long you wait and if you want mechanical or hydraulic.

    mechanical go real cheap

    hydraulic not so real cheap

    also depends on how well tooled they are. at 20-30 bucks per punch die set, you can get expensive pretty quick.

    i know of people getting hydraulic machines for as low as 500, but i see them going pretty consistantly in the 1-2k range.

    -Jacob

  3. #3
    Ries's Avatar
    Ries is online now Diamond
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    Man, I am jealous of you guys who live in the land of plenty. Around here, even a cheesy first generation Dvorak, which is the predecessor of Scotchman, with an inboard punch, fetches at least 2 grand used.And those are only 25 to 30 tons. A decent 40 to 50 ton hydraulic out here is always worth over 3 grand, and often sell for very close to new prices, in the 4 to 5 grand range.
    Even mechanicals are usually well over 2 grand. Much more, if they are a Mubea or a Peddinghaus, which basically seem to run forever- I have seen 1950's Mubea's still working daily in the grungiest, least maintained condition.

    But that is mostly because the Northwest is a machinery desert.

    I would recommend checking new prices on Scotchman and Edwards, so you can bargain intelligently.
    Not much of anything new is any cheaper than 5 grand, and average for a new 50 ton these days is around 10.

  4. #4
    snowman is offline Diamond
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    well, ries, if it's any consellation, i went back to my notes and found that you are more correct [img]smile.gif[/img]

    I do know of a few people getting scotchman's cheap, but it never happens when i'm at the auction. if i'm at the auction it always goes for 3 times whatever i have available....if i had ten grand, that 50 ton unit would have been signed by Elvis or something and sell for 30 grand.

    I'm building a small 25 ton hydraulic punch based on basic hydraulic ironworker designs...might add a 3" shear to it too. Most of my work is of that size...if it's over that, I wont have the tooling and will pay the local steel house anyway. Thus far I have about 110 bucks in the punch stem, retaining nut and punches and dies (5/16), and another 50 bucks in the hydraulics. Still have to buy hoses and connectors, then figure out how I'm doing the stripper...can't decide between mechanical or just a urethane.

    -Jacob

  5. #5
    surplusjohn is offline Diamond
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    a hyd iron worker 10 years old will easily sell for mote than half original price

  6. #6
    Timw is offline Stainless
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    I have a 50 ton Scotchman that after a series of transactions I own and have $600. in my pocket. Not very easy to do though. I bought 3 pieces of equipment, sold the other 2, kept the Ironworker and the money!
    Before the Scotchman I had a 35 ton Buffalo mechanical. That machine was scarie! When you hit the peddle something was going to get cut/punched and the machine didn't care what! With the hydralic machines you can abort up to a point. I sold the Buffalo for $1600.
    Both machines are 3 phase and I run/ran them on a homemade static converter. They both run fine with the converter. When looking try to find a 3 phase unit. They usually take longer to sell and go for less. I guess not too many people know how easy converters are to hook up and most businesses with 3 phase power will buy new units.
    With Ironworkers you have to figure out what your use will be and then try to find a machine that comes close. Tooling is also a factor/expense. I built a simple brake for mine that will 90* 1/4" up to 12" wide and thicker metals in shorter widths. I used scrap that I had to build, a new one lists about $1000.
    You will deffinately have to beat the Bushes to find a deal because they will pay for themselves in one job and people don't part with them often. tim

  7. #7
    RioDPax is offline Aluminum
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    I'm thinking about one of those 40 Ton Metal Pro's. They're only about $2500 and light enough that I can get it into my basement. Anything negative on them put it here. I don't want to be wasting my money.

    http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...ctId=476&R=476

  8. #8
    Ries's Avatar
    Ries is online now Diamond
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    Those must be Minnesota Tons- because my Basque ironworker will do about twice the work at 40 tons.
    I think those Metal Pro things are mickey mouse toys- but if all you ever do is 1/4" plate, and that only on alternate weekends, then maybe its enough machine for you.
    I know in my shop we would break one in the first day- but I think nothing of needing to punch 50 3/4" holes in 1/2" stainless plate.
    Or shearing a few hundred pieces of stainless 3/4" rebar, and the tensile on that stuff is pretty scary- it aint no 36,000 pounds, I can tell you that.

    Basically the Metal Pro is a cheap copy of the Scotchman, which, in my opinion, is a cheap copy of a real ironworker. But lots of people get lots of work done with both of them. Just dont expect a Metal Pro to really be, well Professional when working with Metal. It will be more like a Metal Hobbyiest.

    I think, especially in the midwest, you could find a real ironworker for 2500 if you work hard enough at it. At the least, an old Buffalo No. 0, which is a 35 ton mechanical that came over on the Mayflower. Recently somebody on this site got one up in Connecticut or somewhere for about $800. And it is a whole lot more machine than a metal pro- heck, the lower die holder probably weighs what an entire metal pro does.

  9. #9
    surplusjohn is offline Diamond
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    one way the cheaper machines are well cheaper is in the pumps, you can get 50 tons with a little pump or a bigger pump, but the little pumps are not only cheap but realllllly slllllloooow.

  10. #10
    muleworks is offline Cast Iron
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    Thanks for the input fellas,
    I checked the price of an edwards 50 and 55 ton at a price of 5300, and 5900 plus freight. What does everyone think of an edwards brand. I know its not the best, but I am buying this machine to get some of that "promise" work. Like I promise if you buy the machine we will give you the job. I have a small mechanical 10 ton bantam ironworker made by bateman machine and foundry. This little toy is tough and fast but is limited on what it can punch or shear.
    Thanks
    Chris

  11. #11
    Ries's Avatar
    Ries is online now Diamond
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    Not to sound negative about everything, but those Edwards machines are pretty basic- their manufacturing philosophy seems to be to try to make a machine tool with nothing but a torch and a drill press- they are pretty crudely designed compared to the real thing. But they work.

    If I had 5 to 6 grand to spend on an ironworker, I would go to
    www.machinetools.com
    www.locatoronline.com
    www.surplusrecord.com
    and look for a good used one.

    Well built ones last a long time. There are quite a few 50 ton models out there used that you could probably get for around 5 grand.

    My personal order of preference would be, from best to worst,

    really nice ones-

    Mubea
    Peddinghaus
    Geka
    Hill Acme
    Piranna

    then maybe

    Ironcrafter
    Scotchman
    Buffalo
    Ficep/Heller
    Metalmuncher
    Edwards

  12. #12
    Timw is offline Stainless
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    I know a guy that has a 55 ton Edwards and it does a good job, about 5 years old, BUT, I wouldn't have one for the pump noise! It has a high pitched whine that goes right through me! When running we can't talk with in 10 feet of it.
    My Scotchman is a 1980 model and still going strong. It has had a hard life judging by it's overall apperance but mechanically it is sound.
    As for the Metal Pro I don't really know anything about them. They are an entry level machine and if you are doing light fab work (under 1/2") it would be a good place to start. I would guess it would have a resale value 60-80% of new depending on your patience at time of sale. If you wanted to up grade later someone is always looking for them.
    If you are doing fab work an Ironworker will earn it's keep. You will find uses for it. They are actually fun to use too. If you have drilled,sawed or burnt metal the Ironworker quality and speed can't be beat.

  13. #13
    tnmgcarbide's Avatar
    tnmgcarbide is online now Titanium
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    i've had good experience w/ the geka. it seems
    to be more safety oriented than most . the one we had
    would punch/shear 3/4 stainless.... punch a 1" hole
    in .75 304 and WATCH OUT! BOOOOMMMMM!

    it was a true production machine w/ sensors for
    the barfeed on the 12" shear + a 45deg brake.

  14. #14
    Ries's Avatar
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    I have had my Geka for about 8 years now, and I love it. It is designed a lot smarter than the competition, and I work a lot of stainless on it, which is HARD stuff. But they arent cheap. Competitive with scotchman and piranna, more expensive than the turkish machines, and a lot less than a new German model.

  15. #15
    TFPace's Avatar
    TFPace is offline Hot Rolled
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    I'll second Ries on the Geka. I bought a used Geka Hydrocrop 55 back in '97 and paid $7,000 for it. It has been worked hard and I all I've done is change the oil in it once and keep it well greased.

    Good luck in your search!

    Tom

  16. #16
    RioDPax is offline Aluminum
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    Ries

    Thanks for the info. I'm just a hobbyist. The most I'd ever shear is 1/4 X 4" and punch holes up to 1/2". The garage is too cold in the winter so I moved everything to the basement. I'm just getting tired of cleaning up after sawing and drilling. All the 1/8th stuff I shear with a Jet Shear. Any heavy metal like cold rolled I'll hit with my chop saw. I don't want to wreck the small bandsaw I use in the basement. I do the welding and painting in the garage. The only problem I have with a lot of these machine tools is that there is no place in the DC area to look at them. I'm convinced that's a part of the marketing plan. You order it, don't like it, and then don't send it back because the shipping charges are almost as much as the price of the machine.

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