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Thread: Why do cnc back gauges cost so much?

  1. #21
    MwTech Inc is offline Stainless
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    Guess I'll jump in here...........

    Like dkmc the price was too high .........so I made both of them.

    First build was for the little 25 ton mechanical, simple check on 'bay and all kinds of linear parts showed up at the shop.

    Unit is a simple center mounted design, hand crank adjust in/out, is adjustable for vertical too.

    Made thousands of bends with this little brake for a build we did. From tiny 3" wide parts up to capacity (still use it) Needed tools to adjust fingers, works Ok.

    New on going project is making a backgauge for my newer 10" hydraulic brake.

    Brake is an older Pacific, non CNC.

    So.......... off to 'bay again, and more linear goodies show up at rock bottom prices

    This time around two rail assemblies were used,(like the big boys),
    mulitiple fingers mounted on linear rail, (easily adjustable no tools)

    22" max bend depth, 8' 6" finger rail width, mixture of Thomson, THK, Rexroth and a few misc vendors

    Solved reverse bends by using punmatics on fingers.

    Using a DRo to set depth, hand crank adjust ..for now.

    Learing PLC's as i write, so unit will be driven via stepper or servo(not sure yet) via touch pad.

    Plus as najnielkp said, I built the system, no high cost tech fees or OEM crap to put up with.

    This stuff is not rocket science

  2. #22
    dkmc is online now Diamond
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    najnielkp......lots of keen interest in your solution here!
    I hope this thread continues.....


    MwTech...have you checked out: http://www.unitronics.com/Content.aspx?page=All_In_One


    dk

  3. #23
    MwTech Inc is offline Stainless
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    No,, just looked at them.

    I am using products from Automation Direct.

    HAve bought stuff from these guys for years.

  4. #24
    dirk is offline Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by najnielkp View Post
    wow. need to link the 2 screws? linear rails are not difficult why make it so complex? i am just talking about a single axis back gage. thats the problem with this forum in that there are too many that will critique a simple solution to a simple requirement.i have been a lurker for many years . all the so called experts have to spout off about an idea because maybe they are not capable of original thoughts? go ahead and buy a 20000.00 back gage then. become dependant on proprietary software . while i can be back up and working in an hour you will be whining for support from the manufacturer. if they are still in business.sheesh!!
    Like DKMC, I want see pic's!!! I just sent my Hurco Autobend 5 for repair, it shows a fault, and Hurco didn't know where the guy was coming from to estimate his mileage. If the control is scrap I still have the backgauge itself, and was hoping to use a PC and this mach 3 program to still use (don't know much about cnc's). Sure look's like it will work to me.Mach3 dynomotion Cnc press brake - YouTube
    My Hurco is a single axis, but the gauge itself is on fine thread screws with dials, don't really see a big deal in making it two axis. The one in the video could be easily made into a 3 axis.

    And for the person who said this "home hobby", who the hell has a 14' 180 ton press brake in there garage? A LOT of people all around this forum, really need take a damn chill pill. This forum is to gain knowledge, home hobbyist or not. There has been a lot of threads about finding machinists, maybe people people don't want work next to some ass hole all day long, like some of the folks on this board. Rant Over.

  5. #25
    bryan_machine is online now Titanium
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    Edster - Okuma's software guy told me the following (2008 I think) - not sure which models this would apply to.

    a. Their controller (which is *not* a "pc") uses standard Intel parts, though in mil-spec form. ("pc" could mean a lot of things - a machine can run an x86 instruction set and not be what we think of as a "pc")

    b. Their controller (runs the machine) and windows environment (runs the add-ons/mt-connect etc.) are running the same hardware over the top of a hypevisor (virtual machine) built around Tron. This makes perfect sense - it would mean that the controller software stack wins all debates about how who gets to run when.

    They complained that windows is "hard to virtualize" to which I merely smiled.... (I worked on Windows for 20 years.)

    Heidenhein did (maybe still does) build an actual "dual" setup with HH running on one and windows on the other. (I didn't buy it...)

    BUT - the key point you are probably trying to get at is when an MTB talks about "windows based" it's not clear what they really mean - and having some very hard real-time stack own the machine with windows running in the gaps is an obvious configuration. Having what amount to 2 computers running in parallel is othe other obvious solution.

  6. #26
    ttm
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    Watch it there Adama and najnielkp, what you are proposing could never work in Ries's world....MUST BE REAL INDUSTRIAL CONTROLZ!
    The laws of nature say a PC could never survive in a shop!
    And the rumors that there are hundreds of guys using MACH and a PC to run cnc plasma cutting
    machines must be just propaganda!



    najnielkp......any chance you could share more on your setup and possibly post some pictures....??
    interested to see that as well

    but I'm no machinist, just ttrying to expand ,my small line of work, and only setting up my first CNC plasma table (mach3 and a pc if I can ever make it all work)

  7. #27
    Doctor Bender is offline Plastic
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    Default CNC Press Brake Back Gauge and Ram Control

    The justification of a CNC back gauge is a no brainer, why are you worried about the price? Scrap, time, trouble all are reduced by far more than the initial investment. I do caution however retrofitting a CNC back gauge to a worn out or inaccurate Press Brake because the best CNC back gauge will not improve angular performance, in fact it may make it worse if you include the ram axis! db

  8. #28
    dkmc is online now Diamond
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bender View Post
    The justification of a CNC back gauge is a no brainer, why are you worried about the price? db
    I bet you repair press brakes and back gauges.
    Maybe even retrofit new ones?

  9. #29
    adama is offline Diamond
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    Whilst i have never studied press breaks much before they do seam pretty simple creatures when it comes to bend angle. Two separately controlled rams, one each end and a glass DRO type scale reading ram position each end. On the Amada top beam is guided by some nice big eccentric adjustable guide rollers. Hard to see how they would ever wear out and even if they did replacement is easy. Glass scales never wear out just die of old age, but again are redialy avalible. The top tool's has holders on little wedge like set-ups i presume to take up adjust camber and get a good bend every time. The bend seams even all the way across hence have never messed with them.

    The hydraulics are all commercial available parts. hence could be easily and cheaply rebuilt as problems arise.

    If i was going to convert a old one i would definitely be contemplating the how too add some kind of auto bend angle calculation. Should be very possible to watch and chart ram force bassed on hydrulic pressure over distance moved to take into account both spring back and uneven plate thickness. By far its the crap varying plate thickness that accounts for most of my varying bend angles. A lot of what im bending is speckled at square to under 0.5mm in 150mm. A sheet often varies by 0.2mm thick across its width, hence a constant chase keeping part's in tolerance. I never realised that such a minor thickness change throws a brake out so far till i started doing it!

  10. #30
    Doctor Bender is offline Plastic
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    Default Repair and retrofit Press Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    I bet you repair press brakes and back gauges.
    Maybe even retrofit new ones?
    I have been working with Press Brakes since 1970. It would be safe to say Iíve done it all! db

  11. #31
    dkmc is online now Diamond
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    And besides that you're in Strippit country.....

  12. #32
    dkmc is online now Diamond
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    BUMP

    najnielkp......any chance to get some pics yet??

  13. #33
    Milacron's Avatar
    Milacron is online now Diamond
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    Ran across this in my files today. Their "Easygage" stop system says "Do it youself pricing starts at $2,990" so maybe they are a little cheaper than TigerStop anyway.


    Automec Backgauge the Leader in Retrofitting Pressbrakes & Shears
    adama likes this.

  14. #34
    dkmc is online now Diamond
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    That's interesting.......I'll check that out.

    Kinda puzzling that I've googled 'press brake back gauge', 'tiger stop', etc, etc, etc, and this one never came up.

  15. #35
    dkmc is online now Diamond
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    najnielkp...........najnielkp...........

    Your fans are cheering for you........come back......bring pictures.......
    adama likes this.

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