Tell me why I shouldn't....

...paint my lathe with Polane. I love the finish, with a little bit of crinkle that hides my bad prep job, and the right balance of gloss and flat.

But then there are the folks that suggest that I'll need a respirator and a new set of lungs when finished. Is this true with all the of Sherwin-Williams Polane mixes, or only with the ones appropriate for a maching finish.

I'd search the archives but....

I'm not sure what Polane is but I would go to the Swherwin Williams website and see what I could find out. They should have a dealer locator that you could call. Generally paints that you use a hardner with contains ISO's that are very dangerous and you don't want to guess about this.
Michael

Polane comes (or used to) in a 2 component (I think) and also in a water-reducible one-component. We checked it out a few years ago for a paint-line upgrade at work.

The water-reducible should be OK, as the isocyanates are already reacted in a one-component paint. They are not "free".

I don't know how I would feel about a water-reducible machine paint....but its used on metal all the time.

In fact, even in a 2 component type, the isocyanates are partly reacted. if it is sprayed in a mixing gun you will need a positive pressure respirator and full coverage suit for safety.

if it is a mix-and-use type, you should be OK with regular organic solvent type filter respirators.

Check the instructions for use and the MSDS. The MSDS should be on the S-W website.

Just to add a bit to this - isocyanates are nasty, and affect people in different ways. What they do is set you up for an allergic reaction. You might use them (unprotected) 1 or 10 or 50 times without a problem, then the next time you get a really, really severe pneumonia-like reaction (e.g. your lungs fill with fluid). JTiers is right, you need a positive-pressure (e.g. supplied air) respirator to work with them. The other bad thing is that they have a very high odor threshold - by the time you can smell them, you are overexposed.

What is a good choice for machine paint that is (reasonably) safe to use and does an adequate job? My lathe could use some cosmetic work too...

Russ Ingersoll used Polane on everything. Machines airlines floors especially if there was an open house coming up. We had problems with it pealing with temperature changes. I guess the expansion was enough different from steel that it just broke the bond. The correct mix of catalyst made a difference in how brittle the paint got. They always needed the wash primer with it also. We switched to the water based stuff when the EPA got stricker on the VOC's
The painters liked the water based stuff alot more. Hardly any fumes and easier cleanup. Us floor guys couldn't tell the difference once the stuff was on a pice of metal.

There are probably already several layers of polane on that old lathe of yours.

Polane? Great stuff, practically bullet proof, but expensive and nasty to apply.

At the risk of sounding like I'm proposing a cheap ass alternative, here's a cheap ass alternative that I've found very satisfactory.

I've frequently used home center 2 part epoxy bathtub paint where you get a quart kit for $16 or so. It's very durable and with good brush technique you a nice flat finish with good gloss. You only have to buy small quantities and you can get any color you want so long as it's white or almond. Every machine tool should look like an appliance.

You can also tint it using the appropiate tinting colors found at a real paint store so long as you like grays and pastels. The kit makers also offer a few saturated colors but they'd likely have to be special ordered. YMMV

You can also buy an epoxy tint base and break it down into quarts for later tinting. I buy S/W or B/M industrial coatings and have them divide a gallon unto 6 one quart cans. The remaining space is about the right amount for the hardener. That way I can tint only what I need.

I'm also quite fond of DuPont Emron coatings. They come in a variety of standard colors and hand brush very well giving good coverage.

A lot of guys insist on spray painting which always involves time-consuming elaborate prep and masking. I suggest good technique and reasonable brushes are nearly as good as spray painting and you don't need 10% of the masking and you don't have to turn your shop into a toxic spill site. Remember, we're talking machine tools not show cars or $100,000 choppers.

For example, I brush painted a customer 42" Bullard Cutmaster giving it three coats of pale blue alkyd paint over the existing prep system which I only cleaned, buil-up, and sanded a bit for appearance and adhesion. Allowance for a hard cure meant a few days between coats for good between-coat sanding. I hardly masked anything except label plates and dials.

By the time I got the brick red and international orange spraycan accents and stripes on the machine, it looked like a million bucks instead of a lick and a promise rebuild. The customer was thrilled. It took time but 70 hours less than bid by the auto painter my boss usually used and we didn't have to built a blue tarp spray booth. Not to take anything away from that pro painter. I couldn't qualify the carry his pressure pot.

It's just that machine tools are machine tools and their paint systems are subject to chipwash, coolant, wrenched banging on them, and abuse. So why gold plate the paint system? Use a paint system you can easily touch up.

[This message has been edited by Forrest Addy (edited 10-26-2003).]

I used Polane on all the tapping machines I manufactured. Hardinge used a texture finish on HLV-H lathes for a few years...suspect it was Polane.

Of course the texture finish has little to do with the fact that it's Polane, as the texture is achieved by a final coat where you simply don't thin it as much and lower the gun pressure until it shoots out in "splatters". I suspect any fast drying paint could be made to "splatter" in this way.

Automotive paint stores sell paints that will hold up just as well but they are usually much more expensive..so Polane is a cost effective way to go. Only down side compared to automotive paints is limited color selection.

Was always a curiosity and sometimes fustration to me that Polane wasn't available in one of the most common machine tool colors...vista green. I used blue and light gray usually.

Polane has their stock colors, but in Portland, Oregon, Sherwin Williams has one industrial paint facility that custom tints Polane. You can get it any color you want. I just had a gallon tinted Moore Gray-green, which I think is just about the nicest color of any machine . I had another gallon tinted to match a Devlieg Jig mill green. The tinting really isn't all the expensive- I think 15.00 for the color match, and then after they do that , they issue you a color code, and they'll tint it for no additional charge.

I like Dupont Imron... the stuff is tough as nails.

Imron and Alwgrip are the favorites of boat builders...excellent finishes. Hatteras Yachts paints their million dollar plus boats with it rather than the usual gelcoat finish.

But, like automotive paints, the catch is the price, some of which is wasted on machine tools due to no need for a finish that can withstand sunlight and rain without fading.

Both Polane and Imron contain isocyanates and should be sprayed using a supplied air resporater! Nasty stuff if you breath any of the fumes. Results are similar to asbestosis.

On my machines that I have rebuilt, I have used Sherwin/Williams industrial enamal. You can buy it buy the quart or gallon custom mixed to your color match. If you don't want the gloss look, the store can add about 1oz./qt. of Japan dryer to dull it up. The stuff sprays or brushes good, it just takes a while to dry.

JR

Hanging around for awhile but my first post! Ive been spraying paint for 32 yrs and if you want something that is tough as nails think"Gaterguard" That is the toughest finish Ive ever seen and has a great texture and is waterbased but I would recommend a good charcoal filter mask and mask anything you dont want coated cause its there to stay! Its that nasty crap they spray bed liners with just dont apply 10-20 coats. Alot of people are even spraying FAL parts with it. Now if I only knew as much about machining I could maybe quit breathing those isocynanates every day, Thank You.......Double

I have been using Polane (Polane T specifically) for about 20 years. It's great stuff and surfaces generally don't require extensive prep work. Although a single coat will protect the item, 2-3 color coats followed by a sputter coat will produce the most durable finish IMO.

You should always use a positive pressure forced air respirator when spraying this stuff. There is no acceptable substitute IMO. When I first considered using Polane products about 20 years ago I called every mask company I could think to see if there was a cartridge based solution for occasional use. I was told 'no way', and that there was no approved acceptable level of isocyanate exposure. I did find a basic one time use mask from 3M that offered some protection from isocyanates, but it was specifically designed for emergency use to escape from areas where free isocyanates may be present. OSHA has recently modified their stand on free isocyanates and air purifying respirators, but I don't trust such devices when I'm being exposed to substances with limited warning indicators.

Here are a few links:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/isocyanates/
http://www.designoctaves.com/pdfs/sherwin.pdf
http://www.usg.edu/rtk/msds/MSDS5004.TXT
http://www.asosh.org/Programmes/SORDSA/Isocyanates.htm

Treat this stuff with respect...