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Thread: Cincinnati 19" hydroshift clutch
10-24-2006, 08:50 AM #1
Does anyone know which size Pullmore clutch was used in the 19 inch lathes? I need to replace the plates. We still use this all day but it's run out of adjustment on the tensioners. Can't take it apart just to see what size we need either. Could I take the plates out of the brake side of it to use on the driven side?
10-24-2006, 12:11 PM #2
Have you ajusted it? It's not that hard to do if you have the proper instructions. It will get out of ajustment long before you will wear out the clutch disk.
When I got my 15 X 54 it needed ajusting. I talked to traytopjohnny and got the info on how to do it. I have since gotten a copy of the instructions. Let me know if you need help with this. tim
10-24-2006, 08:32 PM #3
A common problem with this type of clutch when exposed to repairmen with limited experience is when they make the adjustment they do not get the tang properly into the next tooth. when the basket passes the spring steel cog it sheers off the tooth you would have needed to hold the adjustment. There is only one proper tooth. One back is to loose, One to much is just that. If you break off the one you need, well, that is just what you did. You do though have three chances. The clutch has a triangulated pressure system. The adjusting ring goes three hundred and sixty degrees of teeth. You got to take shifter out and remove a pin to index adjustment cam 120 degrees in plus or minus direction and then reassemble. I am not saying your clutch is not fried. I am saying I have never seen one that has been fried. My experience is people who have adjusted theier clutch and have it drop back to where it was because of a missing tooth. hopw this helps, John
10-24-2006, 09:15 PM #4
I need to know, which pullmore clutch size is in the 19 inch?
This one is fried.
I did a complete rebuild on our 15 inch, new pressure plate, disks, cam pins, adjusting ring, spring clip etc. I got that one right anyway.
This other one is set where it needs to be, locks in, has the right clearance on the fingers to the lobed adjusting ring, no broken teeth. The outboard bearing housing is not loose, not enough endplay in the shaft to make a difference. It just slips.
I can get parts locally, just don't have the luxury of pulling the machine down to look then put it together again while I'm waiting on parts. Cincinnati parts guy hasn't called back either
10-25-2006, 07:49 AM #5I can get parts locally, just don't have the luxury of pulling the machine down to look then put it together again while I'm waiting on parts.
What would you do if it was your car?
10-25-2006, 02:12 PM #6
You don't get it do you? Locally doesn't mean in stock at the moment. We still use this daily.
Taking it apart just to get the numbers and putting it together again is about 5-6 hours of work.
If someone would answer the one question I had at the beginning- which size pulllmore clutch- I could have the parts on hand when I take it apart and I could put it back together with the new parts and be done with it.
10-25-2006, 02:18 PM #7
Even IF I had the manuals, which I dont anymore, all you'd get was part numbers. Maybe you can measure what you can by taking the cover off and select the proper plates from a catalog?.. MAYBE, maybe not.
Ohh and some day, it WILL conk out on you.. whacha gona do then?
10-25-2006, 09:17 PM #8
The brake plates on my 12 1/2" traytop will interchange with my clutch plates. I would take an educated guess and say your larger plates will exchange as well. While you have it down, keep an example of the drive and driven fom the clutch side so as to use as examples for replacements. I will say though if your clutch is trashed I would be concerned with what trashed it. I worked at the place that built these things and they were quite plentiful and rarely had issues with the clutches unless something was out of place. Hope this helps. John
10-26-2006, 08:15 PM #9
Thank you John. I suspected the plates were the same, it's all one clutch package from rockford clutch. I had our 15 inch apart when one of the cam pins came out and broke a few of the other pieces.
Just having the Pullmore clutch size or number I can go to North American Clutch and Driveline and get all of the components for these clutches. They are the same people the new Cincinatti parts place calls for the parts.
Just swapiing plates around is a fall back plan if I cannot figure out the size of the plates etc.
10-26-2006, 08:23 PM #10
I sold a 19X54 Hydrashift a year or so ago and specificaly stated there was no gaurenty expressed or implied. The clutch failed immediately. I did go and repair the machine as I am reputable. Offer a discoosure clause just in case. It turned out the teeth were tore off the adjustment as I have previously stated. I was worried that there would be hard parts I would have to buy. Turned out I meerly needed to index the cam gear. Just curious, when you actually purchase your parts would you please post what they cost. I'd be willing to bet Milacron would want several thousand dollars. John
10-27-2006, 08:59 AM #11
On our 15 inch, I called Milacron first. they wanted 3600$ for 6 plates, a pressure plate the gear and the spring clip. I stopped at Rockfrod Clutch and talked to an engineer about making some of this, thinking it was all unavailable. He sent me to North American Clutch and Drivelilne- about a mile from my home. The parts guy told me someone from Cincinatti had called earlier in the day about the same parts.
He had a pressure plate in stock and got all my other parts in 2 days- 600$ total.
Cincinnati wanted 6X that and told me it would take 6 weeks to get.
I worked ant Ingersoll for 21 years. I liked their machines and thought they were some of the best. You guys were some of our biggest competition. Now I've been working on these old Cincinatti's and love them. Well thought out, and easy to work on. With such a broad product line, its hard to fathom how these companies just faded away.
10-27-2006, 07:43 PM #12
You worked at Ingersoll huh. We had one huge beamuth of an Ingersoll that would ripp off metal like there was no tomorrow. It had round ways. Only time I ever saw anything like it. Huge machine. I did a fair amount of maintenance on it and was glad I was laid off before it needed to be taken out. We also had three Waldrich Seigen five sided mills with hydrostatic ways. Waldrich Seigen was some how tied into Ingersoll. I installed all three of the Wardrich Seigens and maintained them for probably fifteen or twenty years. The day I left, the ways were impeccable. I had utmost respect for them. John
10-27-2006, 10:19 PM #13
The round way machines were just really oily. Up until Ingersoll closed, I know you could get new segments to fit on the tables. We would re-mill about one of those machines a year and refit with new tubes for the tables. Just phenolic (canvvas/epoxy) wrappped on metal tubes and ground to size. they stopped making that style in the mid-60's I think. Ingersoll, Waldrich Siegen, Waldrich Coburg, Bohle, were all owned by Edson Gaylord. Bohle and Waldrich Coburg closed in the mid 90's and Siegen got bought by some European company other than the Krupps group when eveerything went under.
I realy didn't like the tool chain set up on those Siegen mills.
Cincinatti built some large horizontal profilers sort of lke Ingersolls. I saw one being put in at Boeing Auburn back in 89 or 90. A service guy named Carl putting it together. How did that one end up?