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Cincinnati Toolmaster Collets?

GregM

Plastic
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Location
Bovey Mn USA
I just purchased a vertical cincinnati mill. Dont know year or model yet but the collets say superflex on them. Dont know much about collets, Would anyone please give me some Ideas?
 
Greg, I own that exact same machine the collets are a Cinncinatti Monoset 3CH collet. They are rare as all hell, and have a terrible habit of cracking like a nut. They are however very accurate. They were primarily used in the Cincinatti Monoset tool grinders, and then Cincinatti made up a holder to fit the 40 taper spindle and recycled the collet. The good news is since it is a 40 taper, the old monoset system can easily be removed, allowing the operator to use either standard er-40 tooling or just 40 taper endmill holders.

When I bought my machine it came with a full set of collets graduated in the 1/16". I got so tired of watching ebay to possibly find a set of spares, that when I saw a guy get a monoset grinder minus the collets I emailed him asking if he wanted to either trade the set of monoset collets for a set of ER-40's or give me the cash needed to buy the real things. A week of watching ebay and I had a slightly used set of ETM ER-40's and they are great, and a much solider rugged design they have. The one thing to be careful is you need the 40taper NBT I think and not the CAT 40. Goodluck with the mill. I own one and love it. It is much more robust then a bridgeport while at the same time with the ecetpion of the head tilting foward and back can do all the same and then some. If you want check out the pictures fourm, and see the one entitled "my shop" to see my mill.

P.S. If you still want to keep that collet system hardenge still supplies them at about $150 each http://www.hardingeworkholding.com/PDF/2351.PDF scroll down to monoset collet. Additionally I think it is David Sobel who has some at $35each.

Adam
 
good morning.

i have a toolmaster that was built in 1959. according to the manual i got from cincinnati, it uses 'craley' collets. i have a picture but i don't know how to attach it here. email if you want it. [email protected]. please put 'collet' in subject so i won't delete it.

happy weekend.
bill
 
Thanks guys! Hey Addammil? Your telling me theres a 40 taper hidden in there? Parts I see there are, collet Nut & sleeve inside that. above that looks like a spanner nut to lock spindle to bearing. Couldnt get into your shop pictures yesterday?
 
The confusion here is that there was a whole series of Toolmasters. The later US made ones included a 1-B in which the spindle was a collet chuck for the Craley (or 3CH) collet. The head had step pulley speeds and quill feed. The 1-C had a motor and gear drive in the ram with either a simple or compound tilt vertical head with 40 taper and no quill. The 1-D was a variable speed head with 40 taper and the 1-E was a step pulley head with 40 taper. These were heavier than the 1-B with 2 hp motors and a bigger quill. The coolest was the H-V which had the geared drive in the ram with compound tilt head on one end and the variable speed 1-D or 1-E head on the other end of the ram. I suspect there was an earlier model than what is in my manual that was a 1 or 1-A. There was a later Toolmaster made in France with a head like the 1-D and the handwheel for the table x-axis was in the front of the knee. I have a 1-D and it seems to be very well made. I'm still putting together a phase converter and haven't made any chips with it yet.
 
Greg,

I don't know why you cant see the pictures but here's the link, it still works for me http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/MY_SHOP.JPG. I know the link I origionally posted was no good, but thanks to Mike Petree, he posted the right link. As for the collet system, if your mill is anything like mine, jump up onto the table, and look down at the top of the head and you should see some sort of drawbar poking trough the spindle a little. I really haven't ever heard of these mills merely having the 3CH collet acceptor ground into the spindle but that is not to say it doesn't exist. If you can find that and look real hard, you should find the 3CH holder easily pops off like using any other drawbar.

Good luck

Adam
 
Cincinatti Milacron Toolmaster #1

I'm looking at a Milacron Toolmaster #1. I don't see any indication of sub models. The owner has no clue as to what I'm taling about when I ask about spindle taper. If I understand correctly from what I've read in this thread, the machine can accept both Ericson (ER 40) and NT 40 tooling? I'm guessing that the comment about the drawbar indicates a native large taper - NT 40? Adapters could then be used for smaller tapers, such as Ericson. I'm trying to rebuild after having lost most of my fully equipped shop due to financial problems and have a large stash of various collets, adapters abnd tooling. This machine seems to fit and I would like to buy provided my tooling can be used. I'm also looking for a good R 8 machine for lighter work. More insight about this machine would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg















Greg,

I don't know why you cant see the pictures but here's the link, it still works for me www.metalworking.com I know the link I origionally posted was no good, but thanks to Mike Petree, he posted the right link. As for the collet system, if your mill is anything like mine, jump up onto the table, and look down at the top of the head and you should see some sort of drawbar poking trough the spindle a little. I really haven't ever heard of these mills merely having the 3CH collet acceptor ground into the spindle but that is not to say it doesn't exist. If you can find that and look real hard, you should find the 3CH holder easily pops off like using any other drawbar.

Good luck

Adam
 
There is confusion on the native spindle taper on Toolmaster mills. Some were NMTB 40 and others were native Monoset and not 40 taper. I have a late model French made Toolmaster and it came with a NMTB40 spindle and a moonset collet adapter. It was bought new by the US ARMY in the mid '80's. I use native NMTB40 holders for inch tooling. I also own Ericson collet chucks for NMTB 40 spindles in ER40 and ER16 sizes. I own full collet sets in Imperial and Metric in sizes ER16 and ER40. This allows me to share tooling between my Toolmaster and my R8 spindle Bridgeport clone. Please also note that different drawbars were made for the Toolmaster to accommodate ISO40 tooling and R8.
 
Hi Welcome to Pratical Machinist. You do know this is a very old thread?
Try using the search function at the top and or Google to find more info about this subject there are lots of old posts about it some with photos. I’m a big fan of these mills and have a Toolmaster H/V. Normally we would need a photo or a better description to be able to tell you what taper it has. The USA mills had four (Monoset/ Toolmaster, #40NMTB, #9BS and #7BS) different taper but only two (Monoset/ Toolmaster and #40 NMTB) are common as far as I can tell. The different heads had different tapers that came with them. There are 1-A , 1-B, 1-C, 1-D ,1-E the HV (two heads) and the French head 1-F and again H/V.
The French head had a changeable draw bar stud to change from 5/8 to 16mm as was written already. I didn’t know you could get the 7/16 stud for R8 but one could be made and then you would still need the adapter from #40 to R8.
You can tell for yourself by looking at the mill what spindle it is. The A and B (motor over top of spindle) have no draw bar and are Monoset/ Toolmaster . The C (motor in the ram) is usually #40 NMTB (no quill) but had either #9 or #7 when it came with quill (all had drawbars). The D and E (motor on top but off set from the spindle like a Bridgeport) had #40 NMTB and a captured drawbar .
The French head was #40 with the drawbar change for ISO 16mm or NMTB 5/8.
I have also seen a Weldon adapter that screws on in place of the collet nut on the Monoset/ Toolmaster mills. You can then use weldon’s very rare #40 quick change set screw tooling.
Post a photo or a link and we can tell you for sure.
Andy
 








 
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