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colchester master 2500 (pics)

3faze

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Location
london ont
i recently purchased a colchester master 2500 made in 1974 used at an auction. i finally got it into my garage and have been trying to get it into working order. All the slides and moving parts are extemely stiff and even with the liberal application of oil they aren't moving much better. The spindle has about 30 thou slop in all direction. The leadscrew is bent pretty good. and when you crank the cross slide handle the far side of the carrige/saddle lifts off the back was a tiny bit. Also inside the head stock a few of the gears that drive the lead screw look like they are only half engaging, meaning that the gears are offset, however i think that this might be related to the spindle problem. if anyone has any suggestions or advice i would love to hear it.
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THanks Brandon (sorry about the pic size)
 
Well from what you have said, 30 thou slop in the main spindle, it sounds like a full inspection of the headstock would be a priority before any damage is done. The Gamett bearings are not cheap and it sounds like some one may have been in there before. Also if it has Matrix clutches these need proper adjustment, a manual would be the go. Leadscrew not too difficult to straighten. If its been used with coolant, good possibility this has gotten into the saddle sump and if thats the case then the oil pump there is probably gunked up and pumping water and not oil to the slide ways. Full strip down and clean up of the oil passages. Replace the O ring/s on the cross feed screw. Oil tank drain/flush as there is no filtration in the system and metal particles can get recirculated. Have a look at whats on the bottom of the headstock.
Quite a good lathe if running well, headstock normally a bit noisy. All the best with the project.
 
I`ll start of by saying I don`t like Colchesters.I think they are a very soft machine and vastly overated.My experience with hundreds of them that is that the paint job is the most lasting thing about them.This makes them look nice and fresh and under used while in reality the bed and slides are badly worn and the headstock sounds like a bag of chisels.Colchester in my eyes only built two half decent manual lathes and they were the Chipmaster and the Magnum.
Gamet bearings are a precision bearing but nothing special but are owned by Colchester so therefore replacements are expensive.IIRC the Triumph does not have manual adjustment on the spindle bearings relying on a spring pack to preload the bearings and I think this may be the same.The matrix clutches are good,simple and reliable and adjustment is easy although can be a bit difficult to access.
I saw two Masters sold in seperate auctions last year,both looked extremely nice but badly worn.The first fetched $800 and the second which was very noisy fetched $4800 mainly because the buyer didn`t run the machine before the auction.
Mark.
 
That looks to be the gap bed model with the handwheel on the right.

Also there is this other related thread.

"All the slides and moving parts are extemely stiff"

Probably a look at the tapered gibs is in order. I recommend you carefully remove both adjustment screws and gently remove the gib.

Take the slides apart and clean, clean, clean. Then oil. Then put the gib in by hand and holding the ends with your two hands, slide the slide back and forth with the leadscrew disengaged. The slide will want to "wedge" the gib going in 1 direction, resist the temptation to push thru that, instead reverse direction and try to maintain stronger control of the gib. Eventually, you'll get a "rough location" of where the slide feels good and tight yet moves reasonably smooth. That's the point to stop and put in the adjustment screws...just tight enough to touch the end of the gib on both ends. Then repeat above. Usually you'll be within 1/4 turn of being "right" for use with the leadscrew.

Note, the adjustment screws are just that...for adjustment. Consider them as if they were a part of a fine watch. They look big and beefy by their (1/2" to 5/8" dia) screw-head but that is a Jedi Mind Trick. The stem is small and the ends of the gib is not to be chipped. The large head is just for function, so go easy on them.
 
OK, so it looks like a full dissasembly of the saddle is in order. I pulled the gear cover off a got a good lock inside the gear box. All the gears look brand new, not a single chiped tooth. The only thing that i can see is a few metal chips in the bottom of the headstock, i will drain the oil tank and flush it all out with new oil, and i will pull the metal chips out with a magnet. I have trouble understamding how the spindle can be that loose and sloppy. My first question was not whether the bearings were worn out but whether there were any bearings in there at all! I am definatly going to have to get a manual because i'm only 16 and this is going to be one complicated project. I'm going to post some more pics of the motor and pulley assembly, i need some advice on the best way to replace the motor because a vfd or rpc are not options. It looks like a pretty simple motor swap.
Thanks
Brandon
 
here are some more pics, a few are of the mill i bought it is a 1996/1997 kondia milling machine with hardened and ground ways, it is in very good shape but is in storage temporarily because of lack of room in the garage. The other pic is of the motor in the colchester master 2500 that i will have to replace with a 1ph one.
mill2.jpg
mill1.jpg
1.jpg
 
The mill looks good from here..although grouted into the floor!

Sometimes that can be a major pain to chisel thru so you can finally move it off that "mooring".

I think I got my manual on CD rom off ebay, it has a good exploded view.

Feel free to PM or contact me if you need help when you get into the lathe, I've had nearly every piece of it apart including the apron and headstock.
 
Hi Brandon -

Just curious, and prepared to offer unasked for advice - why do you say that a VFD or an RPC are both not options? I've had an RPC running my BP clone and my lathe for years and have always been really happy with trouble free performance of both RPC and machines. Just yesterday I fired up my first VFD, on a bandsaw, and am just awed by its flexibility and performance. Both schemes are very affordable and work great. I'm actually developing a dislike for single phase motors!

Good luck on your rebuild, Monoblanco
 
I think his problem is that the existing 3 phase motor is a 575vac motor on the lathe.

In another post I suggested he might shop eBuy for a 230/460 motor of the same frame size and speed...it's just a foot-mount, the triple belt sheave should just cross right over.
 
How are you measuring the spindle "slop"? Like Mark said the spindle bearings on the Triumph are preloaded with springs, possibly the Masters are the same. This means that if you place a large screwdriver behind the camlock and prise you will see a lot of movement.
I bought a triumph a while back and it is a fairly nice machine, not much wear BUT it is very noisy in the headstock. In fact it is so noisy that last week when I was using it 8 hrs a day for 5 days and the first two days my head was splitting when I got home, next few days I was wearing ear defenders and it sounded a nice lathe LOL
Hood
 
Very nice, ya done well....

That IS the very lathe I am in the market for. I am looking to replace my trustworthy South Bend 10" for a nice CC..... Good for you...JRouche
 
I don't know anything about the lathe you bought but I do know that most 16 year olds these days are more worried about their hair and their ipod. I for one think it is great what you are undertaking and wish you much success. ;)
 
Brandon,
While I have not had the spindle on my 2500 out, the manual does show a spring pack (20 springs) as Mark mentioned. As for the motor IIRC its 5HP and powering it by a VFD (if the varying speed is used) would effect the output of the headstock oil pump unless some work around is envisioned. I dont know your voltage/amperage for single phase in Canada but here in Oz we are limited to 10 amps on single phase standard wiring or roughly 3HP. Can you use a jockey motor (properly set up of course) to generate 3 phase. Later in the day will (unless somebody else does) post a scan of the main spindle to help with your trouble shooting.
 
The spindle slop was measured by me moving the chuck manualy by my hands, it moves approximatly 30 thou in all directions in, out , side to side. I cannot use a vfd or rpc because the motor is 575v and i only have 230v 1ph. I'd rather not replace the motor with a 230v 3ph one and then run a vfd because of the rpm oil pump problem and it will be pretty complicated. Does anyone had a picture of where i should tighten the spindle springs so that there is less slop? anyone in canda know where i can buy shell tellus and shell tonna oils for the gearbox and ways?? Thanks for the info
Brandon
 
As Hood says the springs are preset and cant be adjusted.You need to do a stripdown of the spindle to see what the problem is.But again it might not be the same as the Triumph and it could have an adjusting nut either on the rear of the spindle or behind the front bearing depending upon what type of bearings are fitted.Either way I would lift the headstock cover and have a look.
Shell Tellus oil is Hydraulic oil and a Vactra oil equivalent would do for the Tonna.
And get a set of "lug plugs".
Mark.
 








 
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