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06-24-2006, 10:14 PM #1
How many KWH in 1 gallon of diesel fuel?
How many gallons per hour to produce 60KW/hr?
06-24-2006, 10:41 PM #2
It also depends on the load, you can have a 60kw generator running with no load or full load and you will not hear the difference in the engine but fuel consumption will vary drastically.
I would find out the specs from a manufacturer before I buy. I ran into a case here were the shop bought a 20hp electric motor brand new but they could not get the information about how to connect it to the power grit (no circuit breaker amp, not anything at all)
Talking about downsizing: nobody home anywhere, and this motor did not come from China
06-24-2006, 11:28 PM #3
How many KWH in 1 gallon of diesel fuel? Hard to say but with the diesel generator running at 90% full load expect 7 to 10 KwHr per gallon. That's a very wild ass guess.
How many gallons per hour to produce 60KW/hr? Do da math.
06-24-2006, 11:50 PM #4Hard to say but with the diesel generator running at 90% full load expect 7 to 10 KwHr per gallon.
About 10 KWH per gallon (100% eff).
06-25-2006, 10:08 AM #5
060625-0850 EST USA
Google search for --- energy in diesel fuel
pick the www.exxon.com/USA-English/GFM/ site and scroll half way down to "What does the heat energy or BTU content of a diesel fuel mean?"
2-D diesel is about 130,000 BTU/gallon.
Google search for --- conversion btu to kwh
you should see 1 KWH = 3413 BTU.
Calculating we get 38.1 KWH/gallon. That is the heat energy in the fuel, but assume the engine and generator efficiency is 30%, then the output is about 11.5 KWH/gallon. That would be at full engine load. So the above estimates are very good, and probably better than my assumption of 30% efficiency.
Our electric rates are about $0.10/KWH. So from the power grid we would pay about $1.15 for the equivalent energy of 1 gallon of diesel fuel from an engine generator combination.
06-25-2006, 12:58 PM #6Our electric rates are about $0.10/KWH. So from the power grid we would pay about $1.15 for the equivalent energy of 1 gallon of diesel fuel from an engine generator combination.
I've found a 100HP (!) waterjet intensifier pump, that may be available cheap. So just doing some day dreaming about the per-hour costs to operate such a monster. The demand charge would kill my power bill I'm sure.
There are 2 companies here that invested big bux for gen-sets (a tire recapper and a rural machine shop) to get away from the power co.
Both negotiated a sweet deal shortly after the fact on low rates locked in for decades with the stipulation they sell the genset to the power co., which quickly made them dissappear.
The properly planned scam might involve a cheap clunker genset painted to look 'expensive', like its going to be around for a long time. Make the sweet deal with the power co, let them haul the tired mule away, and move on with locked-in cheap elecrtic rates.
Just some thoughts...
06-25-2006, 01:27 PM #7
Why not lookat a spec sheet for a new one?
See what a new one uses in fuel.
Now, do you really think that anyold pc of junk you find will do 1/2 as well as a new Cat?
06-25-2006, 02:41 PM #8Now, do you really think that anyold pc of junk you find will do 1/2 as well as a new Cat?
Will the power company buy the 'anyold pc of junk' and give me a reasonable rate to boot....
06-25-2006, 02:47 PM #9
Why should the rate payers, your neighbors, subsidize you?
Are you so special?
06-25-2006, 03:50 PM #10
Hmm, now this is an idea. Mostly because I have a 60KW three phase 460 military gen set that runs like a top. (Though a VERY loud top) I'll slide that back in behind the shop and crank er up. I am pretty sure the folks calling from a half mile away to complain might pay me to turn it off!
And Gary E, don't forget your Prozac. Belive it or not, electric service is not considered an "essisential service", unless you are on life support equipment. This is how they can cut off old ladies in summer heat and not give a damn.
dkmc is free to NOT buy electric service from the local company, "breaking away" from the grid if you will. And he *is* free to gen his own as long as he isn't hooked back into the grid. He is even free to gen his own *and* hook back to the grid if he meets a bunch of rules and regs AND the power company is required by law to buy back his excess. Several large lumber mills around here do just that. If the electric company wants to pay him hush money to get rid of his genset so his neighbors don't get the same idea then good for him.
Personally I have been looking into a 100hp waste oil and wood chip steam plant. I happen to have a ready supply of both for free. Set it up, let er rip and let the power company send me checks for a change.
06-25-2006, 05:07 PM #11Why should the rate payers, your neighbors, subsidize you?
Are you so special?
I don't make the rules. If other businesses negotiate deals based on the power companys fear
of loosing money to a genset, so be it.
What ever it would take to get the .22c/KWH lowered.
The neighbors 'subsidizing'?? me have NOThing to do with it... :rolleyes:
jkilroy........you're on a whole different set of
rules and regs with a steam boiler. That couldn't
be an economical alt. energy way to go...!
Hook up the genset, play it up big, call out your account rep from the elec co & brag to him how much you're saving....
Tell them the shop next door is -real- interested in your project.
Maybe they'll come around and play ball.
In my case, I'd hope just pouring a pad & borrowing a fuel tank would be enough 'intent' to make a deal... Forget actually buying any genset....
06-25-2006, 05:24 PM #12
Several years ago I worked up a rough cost study of roll your own power Vs buy it off the grid. Taking all the costs of operation, the only one than even paid a little bit is if you had a year-round waterfall on your property you could legally exploit. 200 KVA Pelton wheel alternator and good synchronizer would result in enough surplus power to keep a small family in modest means.
Generating from fossil fuel? Forget it even with a fuel price break. About the time you get ahead it's time for the 10,000 hour rebuild. Steam from firewood is even worse. The EPA hassle alone will require a full year's work every year from a red mouth lawyer. Wind power is quirky. It's REALLY HARD to beat the system.
People who tell you they do, or "know a guy" who does are the same people who tell you about going to Vegas and the money they won. They're leaving out some really important stuff - like fuel cost. Parts. Penalties from down time. Unscheduled outages. Cost of isurance. Annual price negotiations. And plain bad luck.
06-25-2006, 05:35 PM #13
One point to remember is that the electric companies use 34% of the heat energy out of the fuel, the balance goes straight up the flue. Now your diesel, it will not get to 34% efficiency, but with a water to water heat exchanger, you could recover a lot of your waste heat for heating the workshop/house so raising your overall efficiency to 60%. Look out for combined heat and power units.
06-25-2006, 06:22 PM #14
Oh, I don't want to generate my own juice, I just want to exploit a couple of free fuel sources and have a little fun maybe offset some hobby expenses. I have a free source of wood chips, probably a large trailer full a week, and a generous supply of waste oil.
06-25-2006, 08:40 PM #15
I'm all for the DIY power trip.
Yes, using the waste heat in winter would help the
picture, but the dang rebuild & maintenence costs
shoot down all the fun ideas.
Years back, there was a PBS program on Saturdays about alt energy ideas. Coolest show was a guy with a hydro turbine on his property. That thing was singing away, think it was in the 5-10KW range. Kept his small house in volts & amps just dandy.
Steam, naturally would be the most fun,
as a hobby. The gov. & their regs take any fun out of it by default. As stated, whats left would be eaten by the laywers....
06-25-2006, 11:15 PM #16
jkilroy, have you looked at a carbon monoxide engine for your wood chips? Spark ignition engines will run off gas from heated wood chips. Quite common in Europe after WW2. It won't be a plug and play set-up, however.
As for waste oil, I have looked at that. A two cycle Detroit will run on about any oil/diesel mixture that will flow. I've had people tell me about running as much as 50% waste oil in the fuel. My thoughts were about 1/5 to 1/4 max, however. Waste heat recovery only had value about 4 months per year. The rest of the time I figured I would have about $.20/kwh in costs, vs $.15/kwh from the power company.
06-26-2006, 09:16 AM #17
Gbent, I have not looked into carbon monoxide engines but will. I have been more interested in steam, a high pressure, short stroke, v-4 configuration, about 100hp. I have this PTO generator that runs at 1000rpm, 40kw, that I picked up real cheap. I could direct drive it from a high rpm engine. Of course I don't need 100hp for 40kw, more like half so I would probably start off running things at half speed/pressure and gear the engine up 2 to 1. The real trick is going to be finding a code boiler, of this size, on the cheap.
The PTO gen set has all the voltage regulation stuff built right in. Like I said, this would all be for fun, and just to drive the local power company crazy when I request grid hook up.
06-26-2006, 09:56 AM #18I have been looking into a 100hp waste oil and wood chip steam plant. I happen to have a ready supply of both for free. Set it up, let er rip
Think of it: Automated firing of a solid fuel. Automated boiler water level control. Automatic shutdown if boiler level gets out of range.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but by the time it is all engineered, materials purchased, and erected, the average joe will be broke and too old to give a darn.
06-26-2006, 11:14 AM #19
I'm not going for un-attended operation, though that would be easier with waste oil as a fuel.
06-26-2006, 07:33 PM #20