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Anyone operated a "rough terrain" crane before ? (photo)

  • Thread starter D. Thomas
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D. Thomas

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Just wondering if a 28 ton version, like shown below, if lifting say a horizontal boring mill that weighed 15 tons, and you hoist the boring mill off the delivery trailer and lower and align the boom forward parallel with the truck, can you then retract the outriggers and ~drive~ the crane a few yards (on flat asphalt) with the boring mill hanging a few feet off the asphalt ? (to poke the machine in the building a little) I suspect the answer is no because with those huge tires the crane would be bouncing too much and/or the load would be swinging too much...but just wondering....

lorain%20crane.jpg


[This message has been edited by D. Thomas (edited 04-03-2003).]
 
I was always told in the ARMY never never
never use the crane without the outriggers
planted, twist the frame and can flip over
easy. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER drive anything
with a boom and load, the swaying motion
generated by the movement would would probably raise the rearend off the ground.
Get a heavy forklift and do it safely.
Good luck.
 
A forklift would of course be better, but one can buy more tonnage for the buck with these cranes (perhaps I should have picked a better example than a pidley 15,000 lb boring mill
smile.gif
) One could unload a 56,000 lb machine with one of these, whereas one would need an ungodly hellacious forklift to unload a machine that heavy...seeing as how most heavier machines also are 8 feet or more deep...probably take a 75,000 lb capacity forklift to unload an 8 foot deep 56,000 lb machine. Not too many of those around except at ship yards and they cost mega bucks even old and rusty (not to mention the fact that one like that would proabably be too heavy to transport without partial disassembly)
 
How much is a few yards?

I guess you mean more than you can reach by swinging the boom and maximum extension.

Seems much safer to make several picks, swinging the crane to get about 20' of movement in each pick. Then moving the crane etc.
 
Look in the cab or the operators manual. You need the chart of capacity for boom angle vs boom length for the counterweight used. Or check the mfg's web site. With a horizontal boom, you have a long lever arm (unless you have really tall ceilings). Some cranes allow you to hang additional weights to conterbalance. Far easier to set the machine on rollers and use the boom winch to pull it into the building. You dont have to worry about tire bounce or swing with a good operator.
 
Several ways to do it, but I would tend to want to take it off the truck, swing it around to the reasonable extent of the crane, set it on rollers, and go from there. Your going to have to move it into the building anyway, so why not have the rollers ready?
You could set it down, move the crane, pick it up and go at it again, but that is a lot of time at 2-4 hundred an hour. If your paying a 4 hour minimum, it shouldn't be a big deal.
Good luck, let us know what the riggers decide to do, cause they usually have the last say...
 
I know a rigger who has done exactly what you want to do, but he isusing a different outfit made from a WW11 tank retreiver chassis. He claims he can lift 44000 and drive away. I have no idea if he built it or bought it.
 
sandman, it would be set on skates anyway but would be much better if set on skates with it partially in the building, as the parking lot is asphalt and has some slope. Plus it would be better to be able to align the crane boom to go straight in rather than having to set a machine on skates and then turn it as well. This is not a one time deal, but considering buying one of these cranes, as the prices are amazingly low on decent used ones...as low as $18,000 for one like in the photo of 1990 vintage. Heck, I've seen (idiots) pay almost that much for 4 year old 5,000 lb forklifts at a few auctions.
 
When I worked at Westinghouse doing heavy steel fabrication, one of my duties was crane operator on the all-terrains and rigger on the large truck cranes.
I used to pick up large steel plates and carry them from the yard to the building. These plates were from 5/8 to 1" thick and anywhere from 12x12 to 12x20. The yard was dirt with lots of potholes.
It could be an interesting adventure with the all terrain crane. Some plates were picked flat with shoes and some carried in the vertical with plate dogs.
I spent many hours traveling with the front outriggers close to the ground and the rear wheels in the air. If you hit a dip or hole, you had to be ready to set the load down.
It is possible to do but nervewracking. We regularly maxed out the machines while traveling. The key was to have the boom as vertical as possible and the load up against the machine. It is a no-no to have the boom anywhere below a 45 degree angle and pick a heavy load with a hydraulic machine. You can rip the boom right off the machine. I have seen it happen.
I also saw the results of an operator swinging a load to the side without the outriggers planted firm enough even on concrete. It went right over on it's side.
The real fun was when driving the truck crane and as I backed into the building, the operator would have to boom down to get the the heavy plates into the building. The lower the boom got, the higher off the ground I would go in the truck cab. We would end up with me having my front axles several feet off the ground and the operator had to carefully lower the load and boom to carefully put my end of the machine back on the ground without the boom raising into the roof of the building. My life was literally in the hands of that crane operator as one mistake and I would be dead in that little cab. They should have extended the interior 40T overhead crane rails to come out of the building so we wouldn't of had to do that scary feat.
I guess my point in this long-winded story is that yes, you can travel with a heavy load. Is it safe? Depends on the conditions.
I spent/survived several years of doing this.
Les
 
D,

My father JUST HAD to have a crane a few years ago. Then he got one. After about three times we used it, he was ready to get a big forklift. We also noticed what a PITA working on it can be. We do our own work, etc. I sold it, and we did went bigger forklifts. My advice would be to get two forklifts of about 20-25K capacity. We've worked ours in tandem, and it works if you take your time.

Can you work on engines? I have a 20K I'd sell reasonably which has a tired Detroit in it.

Richard
 
One thing I presume about one of these rough terrain cranes is that you'd pretty much ~have~ to have a helper during the process. It's quite a PITA just to get in and out of the things...quite a climb up !
 
I would think you can lift and travel on one of these.There should be two sets of ratings on the plate.One set for blocked duties(outriggers down) and the other unblocked.I have a Jones Iron Fairy 10 ton industrial crane which is designed for doing this.Every plant shifter I know has one.Mine will lift 10 ton on the legs
and about 8 on wheels and travel.It is very tiring as Don says to work on your own as it`s a PIA climbing in and out the cab.If you do a google search for "JIF 10" you should get some info on these machines.
Regards,Mark
 
No!!!!

I have seen two Grove All Terraine cranes tip over, and a third that tipped off a dock into 50 feet of salt water. And a 50 ton truck crane tip over in a parking lot.

The first three accidents caused by over extending the crane capacity by first, picking a heavy load, then booming down. The salt water version was amplified by picking a load off a dock, then a combination of lowering the boom and swinging over the water. It's a funny feeling looking down into murky salt water, seeing a yellow glow, and knowing a 50 ton capacity crane is on the bottom. The operator was extremely lucky: One of the ground crew was an excellent swimmer, he dove off the dock, swam down into the cab, and pulled the operator out. Otherwise we would have had a drowning. We had to bring in a 300 ton barge mounted crane to retrive the 50 tonner from the drink. Loaded it directly on to a barge, then it went to a scrap yard.

Before using a crane, the operator must fully understand the capacity vs. the boom angle, the boom extension, and the distance of the load from the center pin, or swivel center, of the crane. For instance, a 50 ton crane has that capacity with the boom upright, retracted, and the outriggers extended fully and no rubber on the ground. Start squirting out that boom, or dropping the boom angle, and the capacity is rapidly reduced. The boom weight of hydraulic cranes can get you into trouble real fast, it is a much different animal from a cable stayed lattice boom crane.

I watched, from a distance, a operator turn over the 50 ton truck crane in a parking lot. He extended the boom straight out in front, flat out, so he had access to grease fittings. He did not have the outriggers out. Then this wise fool decided to swing the boom so he could lower the head of the boom closer to the ground. Got about a 30 degree angle to the right of the centerline of the truck chassis and she tipped over on the side. Took a 100 ton crane to upright it, plus a lot of bucks to get it back in operating condition.

Less than a month ago, in this area, a large all terraine crane tipped over frontwards. Crushed the cab and killed the operator. Booming down a heavy load caused this one.

In summary, have an experienced hand at the crane controls that fully understands what he is doing. I have been around a lot of crane usage, up to 300 ton cranes. A crane accident is very fast, no one has time to react, and they are extremely deadly. My rule when observing a crane pick was to be a distance at least the boom length away from the crane.

[This message has been edited by John Ricks (edited 04-04-2003).]
 
Washable seat covers are a good thing to have if you're into picking and setting heavy loads.Definitely have a helper for watching and giving warning if something isn't right! Near here recently,a new 100+ ton crane,lifting the end of a rail car,had the turntable bolts start snapping off,the crane landed on a Case backhoe. The backhoe operator had just climbed into a pickup to warm up,less than 5min.before. The crane operator wasn't hurt.The backhoe was junk.
 
Don, the other guys know a lot more than me about cranes.

But, you ought to remember that if you swing the load, the forces may be much larger than the static weight of the load.

And even with soft tires, a small-looking bump may cause an acceleration at the end of the boom that makes the effective weight of the load 1.5 times (or more) the actual weight. Might be enough to tip it then.

Also, a slope of ground or loading ramp might effectively act like booming down by tipping the unit forward. That moves the center of gravity vs the axle. Once it starts over, the angle and leverage will increase fast until the load lands.

I see them carrying loads around at construction sites, but it is generally light stuff.
 
JRicks, thanks, great crane stories (Les too). As to the idiot that swung his boom without outriggers, I think even I would have thought it heavy enough to never swing it from zero degrees without outriggers, but that is a good point that the boom itself is pretty heavy.

To clarify, I was thinking in terms of never ever swinging the boom without outriggers fully extended and never ever driving with a load unless the load was well within the capacity with the boom in full down position, only fully straight forward and only if the load was just inches off the ground. I would think, nothing "bad" could happen in that situation except for perhaps damaging the base of the machine or the asphalt if it bounced a bit.
 
How about embeding a couple of heavy c channels in your parking lot extending into your building, nice and level, roll your skates out and roll the iron in, nice and easy and safe. I hate even hearing about this stuff, done some of it myself and know how fast you go over the line from ok to disaster.
Saw a scrap yard guy bring in an ancient BE cable crane with a magnet to for a big scraping job, was swinging it around and hit a power line, he saw it in time and jumped clear, no one hurt, he had been working on the site for several days and swears he did not see the power line there before that! I think that is still sitting there after 5 years!
 
After reading these stories about crane accidents I`m beginning to wonder if you don`t use safe load indicators in the States,or if the operators are not certificated.Using a crane should not be dangerous if the machine has a current test cert,the load indicator is working and the operator knows what he is doing.The Jones cranes cannot travel if you are not within 5 degrees of straight ahead with the jib.The jib is also short enough to let you bring the load back against the front of the machine,this helps to stop it swinging out and away from you.Also as Don says the load when moving is only a few inches of the ground.
Regards,Mark
 
Kurt, by "move" do you mean "lift" ? How big is big (in pounds) ?
 








 
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