Engis Diaform

Does anyone have any recent experience with the above? I've just been given one, with its 1983 manual, and I don't think I understand it very well.

Northernsinger

Not recent, but I have one that sits here.

Basically a manually operated tracer device with purpose built "knife" diamonds that take the form of a much enlarged template (my templates appear to be 10:1) and dress that form (to the correct size) into a grinding wheel.



John

Nice photograph, John. I believe that that may be a Model 10, according to my manual. I think mine is a Model 12. What kind of grinder did you use this on? Do you ever use the thing now?

I believe the shop that gave this to me--when I bought some of their equipment--had hoped to use this in some fashion on a surface grinder, and I believe they never did.

I think I want to use this as trading material, but suspect there isn't a big call for it.

Northernsinger

Hi Robert:

I believe the type I have is for OD (or larger Universal) grinders. I have also seen smaller ones that were plainly arranged a little differently for surface grinders.

I have never used this one, which was a gift long ago. When I had the '30 Packard, I thought it would be just the thing for reproducing the no longer available spherical steering components.

John

I have one sitting at the shop,it fits a surface grinder. IIRC, it is a 10/1 ratio... You make a template, & follow it. The huge wooden box sure takes up a lot of space. BTW, mine is Pratt & Whitney, I think Engis later bought that line from them.

Haven't kept up with these lately on eBay, but have seen them (which model?) sell for over $600, more than once.

Bob-
I've got 3 of the things. One of those accidents, setting out to buy the "one you want" and getting the next 3 that come along just in case, lol.

I had several "intended" uses: primary one was to grind form tools for gear teeth, to use on a shaper. #2, I sometimes get a call for making router bits or small shaper bits for other shops. I'm pretty darn good at grinding even 3 wings by template, hand, and eye; but it occurred to me to that it might be interesting to experiment. (I'm pretty choosy about who I'll make custom tooling for, not really set up to serve JQ Public and don't need the liability). Peripheral to that, some cutter heads and tool blocks take bits with features on the back, that could most easily be duplicated by dressing to a template, than working the dials and swinging an R & A dresser multiple times. I also use a tenoner pretty extensively. If I ever got into efficiency and standardized some profiles instead of grinding new tools for every job, the unit would make it pretty simple to make insert cutters that need ground only on the face for sharpening. #3 was pretty much what they were made for: small complex split dies that are now completely made by EDM.

As it turns out, i never set even one up to use yet. But expect to for gear teeth "eventually"


Did you get a few diamonds with yours? setter blocks, guards, etc?

Does yours have the style that takes a rougher and a finisher diamond? Some of the early ones (the ones P & W marketed for Engis) only take one diamond at a time.

smt

Yes, Davis, I believe mine might be marked P & W and Engis. I didn't get the packing crate for it, I probably should make one.

J. Elliott, I think I'll follow eBay activity on these, if any, that's a good idea, thanks.

Northernsinger

My take on ebay activity is there is still a lot of optimism that EDM will dry up and blow away, and then these things will be worth big bucks again, lol! They usually don't make $150, though every now and then one with all the gadjets in good shape in the box will sail up to a couple/$300 or so. Sometimes a little higher if a late Engis that take 2 diamonds.

smt

Stephen, thanks also. The pantograpg is out in the shop but if the rough and finisher diamond blocks go on the carrier one above the other I think mine has both: I'll check next time I'm out that way.

Doesn't sound like I'm going to trade mine to you, though I've got to find somebody to trade to as I believe this thing is beyond me. What kind of grinder were you going to sue this on?

Thanks again.

Northernsinger

Bob-

If yours is a 12/ series, it is pretty good sized, for cylindrical grinders, for wheel diameters between 24" & 37", depending on the suffix #. (/1= up to 37" dia, 1/2" depth, 1" wide; /2= up to 29", 1" d, 2" W; /4 = 23 3/4" dia, 1 1/2" d, 4" w.)

/1 is 10:1; /2 & /4 are 5:1


If you have something in that class, it probably is valuable, if you can find the right person who needs it. Someone grinding form rolls, making crush grinding tools, etc. Maybe someone in China or India, these days

I have one over-the-wheel type (similar to your 12/ but configured for permanent mount on a surface grinder); plus a small portable table mount for a surface grinder, and a, err.... "large" portable table mount for a, ahem, *much* larger wheel grinder than my 10" wheel DoALL. (hey, it didn't occur to me to ask about scale, when looking at the ebay picture . Didn't know at the time Engis made one that came in a ribbon stripe mahogany box as big as a wash machine! Honest, it looked dollhouse size in the picture! My wife comandeered the box for the living room, the pantograph sits in the shop, way up on top, out of the way, on an indoor baghouse in the shop)

smt

Stephen, I must be wrong, as I don't believe mine is made to shape 37" yard big wheels. That's a far cry from the DoAll 612 I bought from that shop--and on which, they told me, they had once thought to mount this thing--I must have the smaller size. I'll look at this more closely tomorrow.

You made me laugh a good deal:

"Honest, it looked dollhouse size in the picture!"

Thanks for your help.

By the way I've just searched eBay separately under both 'Engis' and 'Diaform' and found very few items--I haven't looked closely at them yet--with high prices and no bids.

Northernsinger

The box for mine is nice, probably would sell for more than the dresser ... As far as the dressers, Moore made a pantograph-type dresser, that clamped around the spindle of a surface grinder. I once had one of them, & a guy that grinds broaches was very pleased to buy it from me...

Where I work they have 2 Diaforms. Even though they also have a couple of CNC surface grinders which can form dress just about anything you can think of the Diaforms are used quite alot. Maybe a preference thing with the older toomakers.

We make the templates on a CNC mill with 1/8" aluminum sheet.

I should also remark the Diaforms we use are with a manual 6x18 surface grinder with typical 7"x 3/4" wheels.

Mark

I have a model 12/1 table mount diaform on my grisetti grinder... I'm trying to make a training plan for my apprentice and cant find the manual anywhere! I need it mainly for maintenance and calibrating instructions. I know this is an old post, but it's a shot in the dark.

Diaforms were actually made by Toolmasters of Hillingdon London UK ,it would be worth trying Optidress E Form Grinding Wheel Dresser - Wheel Forming Attachment - Precision International Corporation