How was the first machine made if there were no machines

scrapdaddy · Aug 13, 2006

I have always wondered how the first machine tool was made with any precision if there were no machine tools yet. Like where did the first lead screw come from? Seems it had to be produced by a very highly skilled hand with a file.

Frank Ford · Aug 13, 2006

Here's an example of that kind of file work. It's a hand filed worm gear set on a not-very-old guitarron, and an example of what can be done even today by skilled hands in places with few resources:

Guest · Aug 13, 2006

I would guess it would start by blacksmithing,
or sand casting, getting something as close to
shape as possible and then finishing with a
file? Maybe you should call the History channel,
probably a good idea for a show, if they don't
have one yet.

RLD · Aug 13, 2006

Re: a lead screw.
The book is around here someplace, I think it's called "The History of the Machine"; they proposed this method:
Imagine a crude, hand-filed lead screw. Mate that with a sort of 'half-nut', make it out of wood, and make it long enough to span, say twenty thread crests.
Use that mechanism to cut the next lead screw. Repeat (using the 'new' lead screw each time) about two or three times and the inaccuracies will be reduced to near zero.
Thanks,

Grey Rider · Aug 13, 2006

Of course, someone would have had to make a hand file first. Doesn't seem trivial to me. How the heck do you make a file?

Ryan

Gary E · Aug 13, 2006

scrapdaddy

I have always wondered how the first machine tool was made with any precision if there were no machine tools yet. Like where did the first lead screw come from? Seems it had to be produced by a very highly skilled hand with a file.

What's a file?
Even if you think you know what one should look like, how do you make it?.. From what do you make it?

RLD · Aug 13, 2006

Ryan,
Now I gotta find that book.
It proposed a chisle-headed hammer on a trip lever, mounted to a (wood-geared) mechanism that advanced the blank for each stroke. I think there was a wood-cut showing such a gizmo.
Crude, but ya gotta start somewhere.
Thanks,

Thermo1 · Aug 13, 2006

Files and other crude tools for shaping metal have probably been around for thousands of years. You have to sharpen the forged blanks of woodworking tools to get a tool that will cut wood, and you have to keep it sharp.

It is my understanding that chipping (with hammer and cold chisel), filing, and scraping (taking off a very small amount of metal with a sharp scraper) have been around for hundreds of years, and were in use until machine tools were perfected in the latter part of the 19th century.

The lead screw is the key component in a machine tool.

Flat surfaces for ways can be made by chiselling and scraping. By making 3 surfaces at the same time,it is possible to make a surface to any degree of flatness. The straighedge so made could be used as a standard to guide scraping a lathe bed flat.

Thermo1

RLD · Aug 13, 2006

OK,
"A History of the Machine", Sigvard Strandh, US pub date 1979, ISBN 0-89479-025-0.
Per the book, 15th century wood cuts showing craftsman with hammer and chisle making files free-hand. Pre-dating the mechanized approach.
Thanks,

L Vanice · Aug 13, 2006

There is a da Vinci drawing of a file-making machine. Around 1960, I saw a travelling exhibit of working models of da Vinci's inventions, including the file tooth chiseling machine mentioned above by RLD.

Of course, most early file teeth were created by hand-hammering a sharp chisel into a soft steel blank and then hardening the resulting file.

Lathes have been around for several thousand years. But geared screwcutting lathes are only about 200 years old. In 1978 I saw in the Science Museum in London a display on historical machines. A circa 1800 Maudsley screw-cutting lathe was prominently displayed. About 200 years ago, an accurate master leadscrew was made by forcing a knife edge tangentially into the circumference of a copper tube. The angle of the knife determined the pitch, and the machine had a very sensitive adjustment for that angle. As the tube was rotated, the knife made an accurate helical groove in the outside of the tube. Then the tube was mounted in a special-purpose lathe with change gears, and actual steel leadscrews could be made in quantity. I believe the machine I remember was designed for building scientific measuring instruments, but the principle could be extended to larger work.

Improving accuracy in machines has often been accomplished by starting with hand-made parts and using them to produce ever more accurate machines until the needed results are achieved.

Larry

mobile_bob · Aug 13, 2006

i have an old book outlining the generation of parts for a lathe, as done way back when.

the spindle was forged as would be expected,, and done so to a pretty high degree of accuracy to start with,,, looked to be well under 1/16"

next it was driven between centers on a heavily built wood lathe with a long hand held tool, that rested under the operators armpit,, where he carefully turned it true,, bit at a time, checking frequently.

then filed a bit, sanded a bit,,, and then installed in a headstock with babbet brgs.

forward to the lead screw

the author showed woodcuts, of a lead screw built out of a piece of hardwood, with wire tightly wrapped around it, to form round threads,, this was used to generate a fairly accurate lead screw.

the authors contension was, generate 100 lead screws, sort out and test,,, and perhaps you get one or two very good ones, which you install in the machine to generate more, test further and take the best to generate again,,, sooner or later you get a pretty accurate screw.

would be interesting to document the process today, from start to finish ,, using all the old methods

bob g

Pazuzu71 · Aug 13, 2006

Da Vinci's lathe:

This would've been a good starting point for making better tools.

[ 08-13-2006, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Pazuzu71 ]

AAB · Aug 13, 2006

scrapdaddy,

I think that there would not be any tools etc unless there was the invention of the hammer. Read " rock " as in Fred Flintstone's day. The rock was also the first knife, arrowhead, file & the hammer is probably more important than the wheel. No wheel without a hammer.

Early gear systems were in the form of timber pegs interlocking with other timber parts.

Regards from Melbourne,Australia

AAB

mobile_bob · Aug 13, 2006

"Early gear systems were in the form of timber pegs interlocking with other timber parts"

yup and they drove em in with a hammer!

lol

bob g

D.spencer · Aug 13, 2006

i have proposed a like type question here before and it was basically "how did they make the first straightedge if they did not have one to compare it to?" never got an answer

L Vanice · Aug 13, 2006

To D.spencer:

The straightedge answer is the same as the flat surface answer. You make three at a time and keep comparing them until any two of the three lay flat against each other. If you only make two, they could have matching curved edges. It takes three to assure a straight edge or flat surface.

Larry

olddude · Aug 14, 2006

Ask Al Gore.

Pazuzu71 · Aug 14, 2006

Ask Al Gore

Get it right.
Al Gore didn't invent the first tool,
He invented the internet.
SHEESH....

Mickey_D · Aug 14, 2006

Gore sponsored the National High Performance Computer Technology Act of 1988. The purpose of this legislation was to establish a high capacity national research computer network, develop and distribute software, develop artificial intelligence programs, stimulate the development of hardware, and invest in basic research and education. This financed the spread of the previously federal arpanet to colleges and universities across the nation. A research grant from this bill provided funding for Marc Andreesen (who went on to found Netscape and start the whole dot com boom) to write the first web browser, Mosaic, and release it for free. This was a very exciting time to be attending college (Texas A&M had a T-1 at that time, I now have one at my house) because at night in computer labs at universities across the nation, the digital exchange of naked pictures had begun, truly driving research.

So, no matter what you think of Gore, we all owe him at least a little, because without his sponsorship of that bill, PM might not exist.

Evan · Aug 14, 2006

I was online and browsing libraries in Switzerland and NASA from my home here in Williams Lake long before Gore had anything to do with it. All telnet of course but the internet was well established and available outside of the US and arpanet years before 1988.

How was the first machine made if there were no machines

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