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  1. #1
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    Default King Way Alignment Tool

    Hello Group,

    This thread is intended to start a discussion of and hopefully lead to the sharing of information on King Way alignment tools. Ultimately, it would be nice if rough plans and dimensions were accumulated and stored so that any member could refer to them to build a similar tool.

    For those not up to speed on this tool, it is an adjustable level that rides on the ways of lathe beds for the purpose of proving the accuracy of the ways (fancy way of saying that it is a useful tool for rebuilders to determine consistency and parallism of the ways after scraping). This post is the follow on to a discussion started on the Monarch forum. Below are some excerpts of the prior discussion on Monarch. Please jump in.



    There were two "official" versions of the King Way alignment tool. 300 and 100, I think.

    When I purchased, at auction, an unknown version of that tool, it turned out, I believe, to be a prototype for a 50 way alignment tool.

    Rimcanyon (Dave) has the dimensions of his 300, another member's 100, and my putative 50 King Way alignment tools.

    It is possible to duplicate the tools from the patent literature (U.K. and U.S), with reference to some of the dimensions of the actual tools.




    I made my putative King Way 50 available to Dave, and it and his 300 and another's 100 were measured in Dave's shop.

    I believe Dave has all the measurements, as well as some ideas for making the repros using available tools.

    The putative 50 doesn't have enough room for the standard King Way level unit, but the 300 certainly does, and the 100 may.

    I have Rich's scraping tape (which I converted to DVD) and it is quite instructive.

    Rich King's tapes and his instruction are highly recommended.




    Peter,skadisak and company,
    I too have been working on a replica of the King-way tool. I have made some preliminary drawings and have been collecting some materials.
    I was fortunate to receive some information from a board member who beat me out on an ebay auction last fall, but I'd be interested in some more details if I could get them. ( I also was out bid on one about two weeks ago. it went for $450.00)

    It seems like a fairly simple thing to replicate, once I have some basic dimensions to work from.

    Chers
    Pete

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    Uncle Bill has a King Way tool. I'll email him and maybe he can contribute to this discussion.
    Butch

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    i just got the King Way video from Dapra Corp. From what I have seen, its pretty good. It has me lusting after a Biax unit though.

    Can we include in this discussion a list of the known videos?

    thanks

    sinneD

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    Talking

    As Butch said I do have a King Way that I have been using for about a year. Not sure what information is needed here but I have used it on lathes and mills to see just how much the ways are worn. In most cases I have been able to spot high and low points that I can make some modofication to.
    The level attachment is very useful for setting up machines with very long ways or just leveling any machine front to back and left to right.
    The only thing I would like to see changed is the ball that rides on the way. It tends to move smoothly in one direction but chatters when moed in the oposite direction even when using way lube.
    The one that sold on eBay about two weeks ago did not seem to have as many pieces as the one I have. Not sure why.


    Bill Clarke

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    I believe the ball is supposed to rest in a ring that rides on the ways.
    Harry

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    Default King Way patent

    I've attached the link below to the google patent for the tool. A quick search in Google Patents using keywords King Alignment Detector will take you to it if the link does not work. I was hoping Uncle Bill or someone else who owns a tool could take some measurements of the parts and list some measurements (all the parts are numbered on the patent illustrations and the dimensions could be listed by patent part number). Anyone up for that?

    Uncle Bill, I have seen several sell at local auctions, but I haven't bid because they went for very high prices ($500-$600) and they looked incomplete. You may have a rare complete unit. If you get a chance look at the patent illustrations.

    beckley23, there is no ring shown in the patent illustrations, but maybe users found that the tool worked better that way?

    sinned, I'm only aware of three in-depth sources of scraping information - the first is the "bible", Machine Tool Reconditioning by Connelly which is a large harcover book written many years ago. If you don't have info on this, I can lookup publisher, etc. from my copy, but I think Dapra sells it. The second is the Rich King video available on eBay or through Dapra, and the third is a book/video combo from a rebuilder in SC named Michael Morgan (see first link below). If anyone else knows of any other sources please fill us in.





    http://www.machinerepair.com/index.html


    http://www.google.com/patents?id=Zot...nment+detector


    Quote Originally Posted by beckley23 View Post
    I believe the ball is supposed to rest in a ring that rides on the ways.
    Harry

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    The ring may not be in the patent, but it came with the set that was loaned to me, and IIRC was included in the instruction manual.
    Take a look at the ball, it's sitting nested in the ring on the flat way. Incidentally the bars are 3/4" D on this particular model.



    If you are making one, one thing I would consider would be the weight. I was slightly surprised by the weight of this unit, even though it is to large to easily set up on an EE, it does have some positives. The main disadvantage using this one on the EE, is that I had to carefully adjust where the levels are to avoid interference with the bars. It would be much easier to use if the levels were closer to the bed, at least I see the bubbles easier.
    I don't think these tools would be to hard to make, other than obtaining the level vials.
    Harry

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    I have 2 of these levels that cary the brand name "Tumico". Had them both for years, and couldnt live without them.
    John Fahnestock
    J&L Scraping Service Inc.
    www.j-lscraping.com

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    Harry,
    Could you scan and send the directions for use? I'd love to read about these. My email in in my profile.

    Thanks
    Alan

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    Don't have a scanner.
    Harry

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    I am steadily building pieces for a simplified version of this concept. Not as universal as the King Way, but provides depth mic checking to all upper surfaces anywhere along bed in reference to unworn factory surfaces.

    It is mostly intended to fit a particular bed and provide very rapid progress checks in roughing down very worn beds with the Biax.

    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v3...er/Way%20Gage/

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    I use a Starrett precision level and a straight edge to scrape the flat way, then my Tumico level to check the rise and fall of the V way as compared to the flat.
    JOHN

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    Default instruction sheets

    I have a good scan of the instruction sheet that I will try to upload to my website tomorrow. They are big tiff format pictures so I can't put them on photobucket.

    I also have found a source of level vials. I'll look up the name and model number and post it tomorrow as well. I'm having a senior moment and can't remember where I got them:-((

    I have most of the dimensions worked out from the patent drawings but I really would appreciate some details of the tube device that rides on the "V" ways.

    More to follow tomorrow

    Pete

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    The edges of the slot in the "channel Slide" are radiused. The channel slide slot is relieved between the ends, such that only about 1-1/8" on each end is touching the ways. I'll try and get a picture soon.
    Harry

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    Default King Way features

    Harry,

    Thanks for clearing up some of the features. I looked closer at the patent tonight and I was wrong - it does show the ring on the base of the ball. Per the patent the ring is used to "float" over scores on a flat way to get more accurate readings.

    The patent also shows the slotted cylindrical piece turned down between the ends so only the ends ride on the ways. As Rich King explained, this is called "three points" and is done to ensure accuracy of the tool so it is not rocking on any irregular surface features (three points would be the ball on one side and the two ends of the slotted cylindrical piece on the other). Any good cast iron surface plate is also suspended on three points - usually two at one end and one at the other so it does not twist. Rich also recommended this procedure under granite plates - use three spacers whether the plate is setting on a table or in a stand.

    He and Connelly have a lot to say about heat, humidity and direct sunlight fudging up readings from precision instruments. I read with great interest your posts on requalifying the 10EE "wreck" bed and duly noted your comments about shop temperature affecting your readings.

    Steve Kadisak



    Quote Originally Posted by beckley23 View Post
    The edges of the slot in the "channel Slide" are radiused. The channel slide slot is relieved between the ends, such that only about 1-1/8" on each end is touching the ways. I'll try and get a picture soon.
    Harry

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    Default Level Vials

    I was out in my shop last night, cleaning up, and I came accross the packing slip for the level vials I bought for my "King way" project.
    These are unmounted level vials 15mm dia x 98mm long. they read 8-10 s/div which is as close to .0005" per ft as I can find without paying for the Starrett mounted ones.
    Part number is 3-3040.

    These came from Geier & Bluhm in Troy NY., and if I recall correctly I paid about $40.00 each delivered to my place here in Canada.
    Geier & Bluhm is a very nice organization to deal with!

    I plan to make mounts from some brass tubing and secure the vials with plaster of paris.

    I'll post a picture later
    Pete

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    Here are the pictures of the channel slides. The 1st I made, the 2nd is King's, and the 3rd are the 2 together showing the center reliefs.







    Harry

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    Default Parts Dimensions

    Harry,

    Would you be willing to post some dimensions - a great start would be the o.d. of the ball foot, the o.d.'s (ends and center) of the slotted tubular foot, width of slot on tubular foot, wall thickness of tubular foot and wall thickness and lengths of vertical and horizontal frame. I believe you have already indicated that the o.d. of the frame components is .75". Thanks.

    Steve Kadisak


    [QUOTE=beckley23;850908]Here are the pictures of the channel slides. The 1st I made, the 2nd is King's, and the 3rd are the 2 together showing the center reliefs.

  22. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by shapeaholic View Post
    I was out in my shop last night, cleaning up, and I came accross the packing slip for the level vials I bought for my "King way" project.
    These are unmounted level vials 15mm dia x 98mm long. they read 8-10 s/div which is as close to .0005" per ft as I can find without paying for the Starrett mounted ones.
    Part number is 3-3040.

    These came from Geier & Bluhm in Troy NY., and if I recall correctly I paid about $40.00 each delivered to my place here in Canada.
    Geier & Bluhm is a very nice organization to deal with!

    I plan to make mounts from some brass tubing and secure the vials with plaster of paris.

    I'll post a picture later
    Pete
    When I built mine 9 years ago I got my vials from McMaster-Carr. G'day zeo


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