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  1. #1
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    Hi all:

    I did a search but didn't come up with any good links.

    I am looking for a thread depth chart. Not the calc of .75 divided by threads/in. I mean the actual depth of the threads or the "minor external diamension" subtracted from the "major external dimension".

    I don't always cut with the compound, but just use the cross.

    Thanks,

    Jake

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    Do you have a "Machinery's Handbook" ?

    Invest in one... even an OLD one...

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    Divide one by the threads per inch and then multiply by .866

    Example: 16 threads per inch

    1/16 = .0625

    .0625 x .866 = .054 single depth of thread

    If you need a chart, work the formula above for all the common threads and make your own chart.

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    Hi Jake,
    I have a thread gage (sometimes called a fishtail)that has the double depths listed for most of the threads. If you don't have one, I suggest getting one. They're handy for grinding and setting up thread tools too.

    If that isn't available, I just work from the one that I have memorized; 20 TPI = .065 double depth.

    As an example, say that you want to cut 16 TPI.
    20/16 = 1.25
    1.25 X .065 = .081
    16 TPI = .081 double depth.

    Works for me anyway.

    Mike

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    Go to my page, download DOT (Depth Of Thread), run it and you'll get an output
    that looks like this...

    ----------------------------
    DEPTH OF THREAD CALCULATIONS

    Threads angle [60 deg] ?
    Threads per inch [20] ? 16
    Compound rest angle [29 deg] ?

    thread angle = 60.00 deg
    threads per inch = 16.0 (pitch = 0.06250 in/thread)
    {compound feed at compound angle = 29.0 deg}

    (A) dot sharp crest - sharp root = 0.05413 in {0.06189 in}
    (B) dot flat crest - flat root = 0.03383 in {0.03868 in}
    (C) dot sharp crest - flat root = 0.04059 in {0.04641 in}
    (D) dot flat crest - sharp root = 0.04736 in {0.05415 in}
    (E) double dot sharp crest - sharp root = 0.10825 in

    For American National (60 deg) thread form, subtract 0.0406 in from
    major diameter (assumes p/8 flat on crest) to obtain pitch diameter

    use any line on threading dial
    ----------------------------


    Regards, Marv

    Home Shop Freeware - Tools for People Who Build Things
    http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

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    Wich one is right?.. Is EITHER RIGHT???

    Divide one by the threads per inch and then multiply by .866

    Example: 16 threads per inch

    1/16 = .0625

    .0625 x .866 = .054 single depth of thread
    OR.........
    As an example, say that you want to cut 16 TPI.
    20/16 = 1.25
    1.25 X .065 = .081
    16 TPI = .081 double depth.

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    Well I'll add another one in there.

    I normaly use this little formula. I'm not sure exactly why its this number works. I think it takes care of the normal root and crest sizes. Anyway, simple as can be. Only 1 number to remember, .625

    .625 devided by whatever TPI #

    .625/16 = aprox .040" depth per side. These numbers are only meant to get you somewhere close, pretty much just like looking at it. When its getting close to a true V shape, you're almost there and should get out the 3wires/ gages, or the mating part.

    I also use this formula for undercuts and I add a bit more for clearance. I never had any complaints.

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    So far NOBODY agrees... this is NOT funny....
    but somehow I sorta expect it...

    Do any of you make threads to the BOOK ?

    Get a "Machinery's Handbook"

    Every one of you would be royally Pi$$ed if the spark plugs you bought were made using your methods...

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    So what does the Machinery Handbook say?

    Jake

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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wich one is right?.. Is EITHER RIGHT???


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Divide one by the threads per inch and then multiply by .866

    Example: 16 threads per inch

    1/16 = .0625

    .0625 x .866 = .054 single depth of thread

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OR.........

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As an example, say that you want to cut 16 TPI.
    20/16 = 1.25
    1.25 X .065 = .081
    16 TPI = .081 double depth.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So far NOBODY agrees... this is NOT funny....
    but somehow I sorta expect it...

    Do any of you make threads to the BOOK ?

    Get a "Machinery's Handbook"

    Every one of you would be royally Pi$$ed if the spark plugs you bought were made using your methods...
    Why don't you get your BOOK out and see which one is right?

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    Gary E,
    By the time you have the thread data found in the handbook, The thread could already be cut! It just isn't all that technical.

    I stand by my "formula". I use that because I happen to be able to remember it.

    Another way to do it:
    Pitch X 1.3 = double depth (Handbook worshippers will probably want to use 1.299 in place of 1.3)
    These numbers are not for a pointed tool, but rather for a tool that has a proper flat at the tip. I think that this is where the descrepency comes from. The single depth of a thread with a sharp root is indeed .866 X pitch. These threads are weaker though.

    Incidently, all this was derived from the "Greenfield Screw Thread Manual" which I believe is still in print.

    Mike

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    Well, I must say I have calculated each of your formulas including the DOT program and none of you are the same.

    Since I don't have a handbook, what does it say?

    Jake

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    It says it doesn't matter how you want to calculate it as long as the end result is good.

    Going with only a calculated depth without checking with 3wires or a ring gage is NOT acceptable in normal production where many parts have to interchange.

  14. #14
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    Here you go...

    http://homepages.tesco.net/~A10bsa/uncpro.htm

    Regards, Marv

    Home Shop Freeware - Tools for People Who Build Things
    http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

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    Here you go...

    http://homepages.tesco.net/~A10bsa/uncpro.htm

    Addendum: Note that, from the above page,

    hn = 0.54127/16 = 0.033829

    which agrees exactly with what my program calculates for
    dot-flat crest to flat root.

    Regards, Marv

    Home Shop Freeware - Tools for People Who Build Things
    http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

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    SND,

    Good point. A formula is only good for getting you in the ballpark. Always stop feeding in a few thou shy of the calculated position and start gaging for the last bit.

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    .130 / number of threads per inch

    example .130 / 12 = .01083333333

    For 75% thread I believe

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    JS:

    That is sounding good. My fishscale says .93 for 14tpi.

    so 13/14 = .92857

    .92857/2 = cross slide depth

    Correct?

    Jake

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    Jake --

    The Theoretical Single Depth of Thread for either the Unified or ISO Metric threadform -- which are both 60-degree threads with a 1/8 Pitch flat at the Major Diameter and a 1/4 Pitch flat at the Minor Diameter -- can be calculated easily from the Thread Pitch:

    Theoretical Single Depth = (5/8) x Pitch x Cos (30 degrees)

    Working a numerical example for a Unified threadform of 1/16 inch Pitch:

    Theoretical Single Depth = (5/8) x 1/16 inch x Cos (30 degrees)

    = 0.625 x 0.0625 inch x 0.866

    = 0.0338 inch

    Working a numerical example for an ISO Metric threadform of 1.25 millimeter Pitch:

    Theoretical Single Depth = (5/8) x 1.25 millimeter x Cos (30 degrees)

    = 0.625 x 1.25 millimeter x 0.866

    = 0.677 millimeter

    The Unified and ISO Metric threadforms are modified (truncated) V screwthreads with a 60-degree included angle between the flanks. In a 60-degree Sharp-V screwthread, the measured-along-the-flank length would be exactly equal to the Pitch. The flats at the Major and Minor Diameters on the Unified and ISO Metric threadforms result in a reduction of the measured-along-flank length to 5/8 that of a same-pitch Sharp-V screwthread. [This means that the Theoretical Along-Flank Infeed of a compound / top slide set at 30 degrees to feed along the flank can be calculated as (5/8) x Pitch, which for a Unified threadform is exactly equal to (5/8) / Number of Threads per Inch.]

    The Single Depth of the screwthread is the measured-along-flank length of the screwthread times the Cosine of one-half of the V angle.

    Ok, the arithmetic says you can combine the 5/8 and Cos (30 degree) factors to create a "magic number", but doing so is a BAD idea. It would be far better to learn the fundamental geometry of the Unified / ISO Metric threadform well enough that you can re-derive the equations whenever you need them.

    That geometry really is pretty straight-forward, and once your understand it, the terms 5/8 and Cosine (30 degree) will come to mind far more readily and reliably than will magic numbers.

    John

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    I'm the only right one here. I hardly ever calculate thread data. I cut threads until they look like a thread then gage them with the nut or male thread, mike them over wires, or thread mike them if they're in range of the thread mikes I have.

    I also cut threads with the standard root flat P/4 to P/6) on the tool tip. Never cut threads with a pointy tool.

    All the thread data and the NIST formulae it takes to derive it from scratch are in Machinery's Handbook.


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