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Machining teflon

Joined
Aug 4, 2006
Location
Attleboro MA
I am trying to machine .02 thick teflon with a length and width of 1.530 x .535 I am sticking it down with double sided tape and cnc maching the outside dimensions. The dimensions are fine until removed from the tape. The length grows to 1.537 when removed. Is there any way to make this stuff more stable? I am not stretching it when removing it. thanks Mike
 
With material that thin, it sounds like that job more amenable to laser/waterjet cutting or stamping. Are either of those options open to you?

-Justin
 
EASY.......

In the past, when machining thin PTFE using sticky-back tape for fixturing; I've flooded the piece with AR grade alcohol to dissolve the glue when machining is complete. That ends the mechanical distortion issues.
 
Or if the length change is predictable compensate before hand. The stuff isn't stable. Usually it is alloyed with another plastic to help.

Chris P
 
I really dont have any other options at this time due to a deadline. I am thinking of just changing the programmed dimensions to make the part come out right. the parts contains a 4 hole pattern as well as an intricate slot.
 
I've had to make some fairly precise things from .020" PTFE before, and arrived at sort of a kooky procedure, but which worked well.

I used a double-sided pressure sensitive adhesive to hold the stock to a block of HDPE in the vise on the mill. I put an Exacto with a fresh #11 blade in an appropriate collet in the spindle, made sure it was going the right direction, and locked the rotation of the spindle.

I brought the blade down, zeroed the DRO, and made the first cut by advancing the part with the table. Theres no kerf, so I moved over the width of the part, and made the next cut. Repeat, repeat.

Make long strips and "part" them into your little rectangles.

I built a dam around the whole thing with some modelling clay, and poured lacquer thinner or acetone in over the parts and left them for the PSA to soften.

Later I fished them out and wiped them clean.

Perfect!
 
I pointed this out recently in another thread but you may not have seen it. PTFE has a nonlinear dimension change between 68 degrees F and 71F where it grows by several percent over that range. If the temperature changes across that range after machining, holding it in your hand to measure it for instance, the dimensions will change.

If the finished item will be used around that temp then your customer cannot have the demanded spec. Also, PTFE is isotropic meaning that the strength perpendicular to the direction the powder was molded to the final slab is twice as strong as the directions parallel to the slab.
 
I looked it up and it is actually worse than I described. Here is a graph showing the dimensional change of teflon with temperature. What the customer wants will depend entirely on exactly what temperature range it will be used in. It isn't possible to supply a part with the specified accuracy unless it is used and measured at the same temperature it was machined at. Note that both types evaluated at the link show a steep change at about room temperature.

teflontemp.jpg
 
"The customer wants +/-.001" - that's pretty funny for a material that creeps like crazy. As soon as you clamp or mate anything to it - it will move.


Chris P
 
Why not tell the customer that he should use
something more dimensionally stable for the
part.

Like a wet noodle.

Seriously, could it be made out of teflon
loaded delrin?

If not, I would say just machine it, and then
squeeze it back until it meets the spec, and
then ship it. How is the customer gaging or
using the parts?

Are they gaskets?

Jim
 
The dimensional change isn't because of creep. It is because of the nonlinear coefficient of expansion with temperature. Under less than 1000 psi PTFE is stable with no appreciable creep.

If the customer insists on the tolerances quoted then simply specify the temperature that it must be measured at. To machine it to a close tolerance do the machining at or above 80F or below 60F and spec the temp accordingly.
 
If the material is only .02 thick then 20lbs per inch will creep it on the edges. It will quickly walk away from any sharp edge it encounters.

Chris P
 
I hate double-side taping stuff....

You say it has a hole pattern, if the true positions aren't super tight, can you stack and sandwich it with a plate of aluminum on top and thru bolt it?
 
I think i would try spray adhesive, and a very sharp fly cutter, run on high speed, with alot of compresses air as a coolant. Clamp a piece of Alum into the vice or table, make a cut across that, then glue your teflon to it, and go to town.
 
The info that Evan posted is a reasonable explanation of one thing that is probably happening. Plastics in general have a much less-controllable coefficient of expansion under changing thermal conditions, and teflon is worse than most (although the information that is posted shows change in microns, and doesn't indicate whether this is microns per mm, or an absolute change on a specific part dimension, or what exactly).
In addition, you are working with a material that is more difficult than most to keep in one place for machining processes. It wouldn't surprise me if the dimensional expansion you are seeing is a combination of the edge of the material backing away from the cutter, and the part slipping slightly on the tape. The tolerances you are attempting to hold are the kind of thing that always put me on notice (in a couple of previous plastic fab lives) that the designer didn't know what he was doing, especially if I saw a +/-.001 tolerance.

As AppliedProto mentioned, is it possible to do any sort of top clamping plate arrangement? My preference would be to do that with an acrylic (Plexiglas)top plate, rather than aluminum, and make it of such a size that you machine both materials at the same time. If you do that with aluminum, you may embed some aluminum in the teflon. It may be obvious, but dead-sharp tools are a must for this material.

How do you know you aren't stretching the part a little when you remove it from the setup? Are you measuring in place?
 
This might not be wat you`re looking for but here it goes anyway.
If your customer is just looking for vacuum compatabillity of the part , you might want to try PEEK
In short : keeps its mechanical strenght till 220 degr.C , highvacuum campatible (hardly any outgassing) doesn`t creep as much as PTFE by far.
Easy to machine too.
 
Evan is, as usual, right on the money.
We did a study on various plastics to be used as slideways bearing pcs. Teflon had the most change over the slightest temp difference of anything we tested.
Elaborate scientific test: inside air, outside air, fridge, freezer, hood of black car, etc.

Sam
 
The total change in the data shown is about
five microns, that on a 0.7 mm sample. A
micron is a thousand mmm, so basically one
part in a hundred, and that's over a 300
degree C temperature shift.

(the sample length is in the header on the
data curve)

So I am going out on a limb here and saying
whatever dimensional changes he was seeing
on his parts, they were not do to thermal
expansion.

Jim
 
Jim -- Right you are on the sample thickness. Gotta get my middle-aged eyes fixed. I think the limb you're on is plenty strong --

Matt
 








 
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