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Machine oil question

Kent

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 9, 2001
Location
Glendale, AZ USA
My M-Head mill and Atlas lathe both call for 10W machine oil. I have tried to find this in J&L and other catalogs with no luck. Everything seems to be ISO rated and I have no clue how to compare. Would spindle oil be what I am after? I used to use non-detergent 30W motor oil but with the new bearings I want to get the right stuff.

I have been told that ATF is just 10W and will work.

Advice is appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Kent (edited 02-16-2003).]
 
There aint no such thing as plain old oil. Lubricants are formulated for different services. While some lubricants will not perform for the wrong service (motor oil in a hypoid rear axle, for example, or sewing machine oil for exposed gearing) in light duty applications even the wrong oil is better than no oil.

In a milling head or lathe headstock all you really need is a light machine oil and ATF will work as well as any.

I took a quick look through google under a couple of search object and found little that was useful except what was once free is now proprietory and requires a fee to access it.

Here's a free viscosty chart but it doesn't give you anythig about product comparisons

http://media.fastclick.net/w/pop.cgi?sid=9462&m=2&CK=N&JS=N&c=6753322[/url]

Suffer the pop up ads. The was about 5 when I looked at it. Geeze, they're annoying.

As for way oil, buy a gallon of Mobile Vactra II from MSC, Enco or someone (maybe your local inductrial supply. I reccommend this as the only stuff to put on your ways.

[This message has been edited by Forrest Addy (edited 02-16-2003).]
 
Using anything but what is recommended is not a good idea. The viscosity of the oil in Saybolt Universal Seconds (SUS) is how the manufacturer of the equipment specs the oil to be used in the machine. There are no cross references for this to SAE numbers.

The last time I needed spindle oil, I bought some from AIRGAS who now own Rutland tool. They have all the different oils you'll need.

TK
 
It's been awhile since I've needed to top off the way oilers on any of machines, but my impression is that official "way" oil is a bit "stickier" than typical motor oil...helps it to stay in place I suppose...
 
There are a couple of different grades of way oil. Our presses spec the "tacky" way oil for the auto lube pumps. It has a consistency about like honey. It hangs on the vertical slides and gibs better.
Les
 
Guys,

Boy, I'm glad to see this thread come up. I'm trying to figure out what REALLY is supposed to go into the apron on my Southbend 13" clone. Nothing fancy here, but a pic is included on my last previous post about this lathe.

I'm having some trouble with the crosslide feed slipping if only mild hand pressure is applied to the crossfeed dial, and am wondering if it might be oil-related. Currently, I've got some light stuff in there recommended by a friend who was told what to use when he bought his Enco import last month. But, he's illeterate and might have gotten it mixed up.

Hey - you take what you can get out here in the countryside!
 
Way oil I could find OK. I'm not sure what spindle oil is. Is it for real high speed, low load or is it good for any spindle?

There was a world of difference using way oil instead of standard oil. Table does not stick and grab on fine movements.

Thanks for the advice. Sorry if this is a basic question but my internet searches just left me confused.
 
Kent: My suggestion is that you call your local oil distribution source that handles industrial lubricants,such as Mobil, Chevron, Texaco etc. They will have a cross reference or will direct you to a phone number that you can call and talk with the company lubrication engineer. He can suggest a product that will give you the proper properties to do the job. That said, for Spindle bearings, if they are anti friction (ball or roller, i would suggest a good quality of hydralic oil. They will give good lube and anti foaming plus anti corrosion additives. Don't go too heavy I would think that an "AW 32" would be just fine. This will also work for your gear boxes with the exception of the lathe apron if it supplies oil to the ways, there you would need a way oil. Mobil Vactra 2 is good or Chevron Vistac 68 is ok. On the spindle oil, if you want a finer grade of oil, get a "GST" grade of oil. (stands for gas,steam, turbine) This is a highly refined lube oil good for your roller and ball bearings. The hydralic oil however will be more than good enough for your application i think . Ross
 
Enco sells Mobil Velocite Spindle Oil no.6 (ISO 10) and no.10 (ISO 22) in 1gal. or 5gal buckets. They also sell Mobil Vactra no.2 (ISO 68) and no.4 (ISO 220).

http://www.use-enco.com/

RP
 
In my experience, Velocite #6 is way to thin for use in Atlas lathe spindles. Runs out almost as fast as you pour it in. This is a Timken bearing spindle, mind you. Vactra #1 is a better choice. Also, in the Atlas spindle, get rid of the felt plugs and replace them with wicks. My cups now drain out in about an hour and a half of continous running and at least I know that oil is flowing through my bearings while I'm working.
Vactra #2 is definitly the best for the ways. I added a Bjuir pump to my lathe to force lube out under the carriage, directly onto the way where you need it. I never thought just oiling the wipers was sufficient for the carriage. That project required some deep drilling from the backside of the carriage, but it works flawlessly. I also added ball oilers to the cross slide and compound to be sure lube was getting between the sliding surfaces where it should be.
Maybe it's like putting perfume on a pig, but I have more fun repairing and improving my machines than actually making things on them. But then again, I make parts at work all day long. If I could find a way to get paid for rebuilding these hobby sized machines, I'd be in hog heaven.
Greg B.
 
A little off the subject, but since Timken spindle bearing lubrication was brought up, why is it that spindle bearings aren't lubricated by "packing" the bearings with grease as is done for the front spindles in automotive applications? Many of those are tapered roller bearings and those go for 30,000 miles or more while being exposed to the heat of braking, side loading, sudden impacts from hitting uneven terrain, all the while bearing the weight of the vehicle. Why wouldn't that work for lathe spindles too?
Steve
 
I've wondered that myself. The auto wheels are not doing the high RPM's maybe? Never figured out how many RPM a wheel does but I doubt it is 1600.
 
Could it be that your are able to hold a tighter clearance on a bearing that is lubricated with oil, as opposed to one that is packed with a thicker grease? I know that when you replace a bearing on a car, you usually back off the spindle nut one or two flats to keep the bearing from overheating. None of us would ever think of loosening the spindle on our lathes!

RP
 
Good point. I sure don't have the answers. I come here to learn. I will probably never be a real machinest but I am improving. Learn something every day here.
 
For answers to questions about oil and for good delivery and local service you call Mobil, Shell etc. local dealers in big cities. They have all the information you need or they can get it. Keep talking to them until you find the guy who actually knows what he is talking about. Grease lubrication for bearings is limited by speed. You can get bearings that operate at high speed with grease but they are usually special. The average tire is say 30 inches OD at 2000 rpm you would be doing around 100 inches per rev x 2000 rpm = 200,000 inches/min. which is about 180 miles/hr. My EE goes to over 4000 rpm so you can figure about where grease gives it up.
 
RP: There is grease lube in anti friction bearings used in machine tools. I have a 21" "Dong Yang" (okuma liscence copy from Korea) It uses roller bearings in the headstock that are grease packed, even though the headstock gears are pressure lubed with oil. I own a number of Deckel mills and all use needle roller bearings in the spindles and all are grease packed! The Colchesters in the shop have oil for the spindle bearings as do the Monarchs....Many current CNC machining and turning centers have sealed cartridge spindle assemblies that are grease packed. Proper engineering and proper application can allow the use of either grease or oil. High spindle speeds will usually tend to favor the oil setup but that is not an absolute! Ross

[This message has been edited by AlfaGTA (edited 02-25-2003).]
 
If you have the 2002/2003 MSC Catalog check out p.2671; upper right hand corner is reference chart for different oils crossed referenced for ISO, SAE, AGMA, etc.
 
A little off the subject, but since Timken spindle bearing lubrication was brought up, why is it that spindle bearings aren't lubricated by "packing" the bearings with grease as is done for the front spindles in automotive applications? Many of those are tapered roller bearings and those go for 30,000 miles or more while being exposed to the heat of braking, side loading, sudden impacts from hitting uneven terrain, all the while bearing the weight of the vehicle. Why wouldn't that work for lathe spindles too?
Steve

Well, it’s pretty rare to be operating a lathe underwater, which isn’t so uncommon in the case of things like wheel/axle/drive shaft bearings in cars.

Even if you’re not fording creeks there’s an incredible amount of water carried by your tires on rainy days and, gravity doing what it does, carries it right down the conveniently angled shafts and the bearings supporting them.

The grease not only lubricates, it prevents water from getting into the bearings; a gooey seal that’s far cheaper than sealed bearings. Sealed and shielded bearings are a significant cost factor in severe duty vehicles, but unnecessary on a regular car, so we get grease.

As an interesting side note, race cars often run bearings that are lubricated just like machine spindle bearings; no packing or press in seals. The reason is the same, they are unlikely to be operating in wet or submerged conditions and anything done to prevent water infiltration either creates friction or captures heat, neither are friendly to high speed.
 








 
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