Milling wood and metal unsafe?

M Hayes · Aug 17, 2006

My father is opposed to me getting a mill in my shop to use for both wood and metal. I plan to clean the mill often (especially when switching in between materials). Is this just a bad idea?

patindahat · Aug 17, 2006

A mill designed for wood is probably not beefy enough to do more than slip by on metal work, although I've never used one. My only thoughts regarding bad point about using wood on a metal mill is that wood (expecially in powder/dust form) can be rather abrasive and you don't want any of that on your precision surfaces.

You don't go into to much detail but is it possible the safety concern is not for the mill but for you. Machine tools are deadly, if used improperly.... I'm not affraid to admit that a vertical lathe still scares the pants off me. If you don't have someone around to teach you how to use the mill properly mabye take some night classes, that will calm your fathers nerves (by making you safer around a mill) and help you find out what you do and don't need on your mill.

Pat

Halcohead · Aug 17, 2006

It's only as unsafe as you make it. Cleanliness is a factor, however general attitude and experience/education of the operator is more critical.

You are never going to convince your dad if all that you say is that you'll clean the machine often. That rarely means anything from a kid (myself included).

I was 16 when I convinced my parents to let me get a mill. There is no metalwroking experience in the family after my great grandfather, so my parents had many concerns. Rather than try to convince them, I had them talk to the man who taught me how to use a mill in the first place. He addressed all of their concerns better than I could have, my parents told me. I reccomend you do domething similar.

johnoder · Aug 17, 2006

A thought to keep in mind. Metal dust is way more abrasive than wood dust. The lighter the mill, the more metal dust it will make. I cut wood on my mills as needed.

John

Scott R · Aug 17, 2006

I use my mills all the time for wood pattern work. Unless your producing hot chips you don't have to clean between metal and wood milling.

But you might make you work environment more enjoyable if you can hook up a shop vac when your milling wood

M Hayes · Aug 17, 2006

My first job out of college I worked as a mill operator, so the concern is not that I know how to use the equipment. He knows that I know what I'm doing.

He seems to be concerned that a powerful mill designed for cutting steel is not the right tool to use on wood. And also he is concerned about 'hot chips' that would be a concern with sawdust around.

mjk · Aug 17, 2006

I work with wood on both my manual and cnc mills and lathes.
I do try not to let the wood dust/chips hang around after the jobs done. Some woods seem to promote staining due to a chemical reaction with the way oil. I would never attempt to use manual wood turning techniques(turning chisels) with an engine lathe. Your tooling needs to be real sharp and a shop vac as mentioned will keep the area clean.
Splinters blowing out of a crash with a mill can be extremely dangerous

, make sure your fixturing isn't relying on a questionable glue joint.
Metal tools for wood I say ok.

Wood tools for metal no way. :confused:

matt_isserstedt · Aug 17, 2006

Here's an opportunity to bargain for a tablesaw, jointer, bandsaw, dust collector, and router table too.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with milling wood, but a mill's rpms are a little slow sometimes and also sometimes difficult to get the part fixtured if it is bigger than a 6" vise (as many wood parts are). Also, somehow I find it dissatisfying to be able to mill the wooden piece within some thousandths and then have the next day's rainstorm-induced-humidity take all of that plus more back out of the dimension you were shooting for.

M Hayes · Aug 17, 2006

The only thing from that list I'm missing is the router table. If this doesn't go my way, I may have to pick one up for my next project.

I really think his major concern is fire which is a moot point, as my workspace is half wood and half metal tools to begin with.

Or maybe its the cost of going with a mill that can cut steel... I wonder if he would let me get the mill I want if I promise to get a router table and not cut wood on the mill (I still have plenty of other things I need it for).

BTW They aren't buying the mill for me, they're paying for part of it as investors in my business.

D.spencer · Aug 17, 2006

My father is opposed to me getting a mill in my shop to use for both wood and metal.

look your straight in the eye and while waving your hand in a slow gesture tell him"these are not the droids you are looking for"(of course knowing the ways of the jedi really help here-mmmm strong in the ways of the force you must be...)if that doesn't work tell him you were thinking of starting a rock band and you were going to be the drummer and practice out in the garage...but you had to start drinking first and get your hair dyed blue and cut into a mowhawk...that should get your mill.. then have your hair (temporarily) dyed blue anyway...

sreeb · Aug 17, 2006

In general, I consider woodworking tools more dangerous than metalworking tools. Woodworking tools take larger cuts, use higher feedrates, and often use fingers for work holding. This is only relative, neither tolerates fools.

For woodworking, you want the highest possible spindle speed. You may be able to mount a router to your mills head or overarm.

L Vanice · Aug 17, 2006

On a lathe, wood turning chisels do a fine job turning metal. I first learned this fact on the Sears wood lathe I got when I was thirteen years old (1953). The same rules for surface speed apply, so HSS or carbide turning tools are less sensitive to heat damage than plain carbon steel tools. I have a lot of Sears Craftsman HSS and carbide wood turning tools that I use for turning steel, brass, aluminum, cast iron, wood or plastic. It is the best way I know to make a curvy crank handle or quickly chamfer a corner.

Here is a picture of a 1945 Hardinge tailstock. I recently made a crank handle like this one by hand turning a steel bar with the Craftsman chisels. I did the job on the lathe that the tailstock fits.

I have original equipment hand turning rests for my Hardinge Cataract 7 and 9 inch lathes. Sears and Clausing used to sell hand turning rests for the Atlas 12x36 lathes. Of course, hand turning of steel is done almost all the time on watchmaker lathes.

I have machined wood patterns and plastic parts on my Rockwell vertical mill, which has a very fast top speed.

The shop vac is a good thing to use in those cases that generate dust. I have a free-standing accessory stand with a Shopsmith flexible arm to hold the nozzle in position while making dust.

Larry

swarfed · Aug 17, 2006

Like others have mentioned, metal machines usually have slower spindle speeds than wood machines. This might be a decent application for an M-head Bridgeport. The J head top speed is only 2720 rpm, where the M is 4250 (the 2J is 4200 and variable speed, but will cost more). M heads can normally be found much cheaper than other Bridgies. The downsides are they're less rigid, have short (3.5") quill travel, have 1/2 hp motors and have less common spindle tapers (B&S #7, MT2 or "Bridgeport #3"). If you could find one cheap with tooling it might make a good wood/metal machine.

M Hayes · Aug 18, 2006

I think my best bet is to do the wood on wood tools. For example using a router table to rough out most of the material and then do minimal finishing on the mill. I don't have to worry about too much moisture change (this is So Cal). I'll just control the saw dust as much as I can. I really want a big mill to do steel on so I'll get an appropriate mill. I've got a gallery space attached to my workshop that I'm going to set up as a machine shop (away from most of the dust. Now I just have to find a mill at the right price...

Evan · Aug 18, 2006

A thought to keep in mind. Metal dust is way more abrasive than wood dust. The lighter the mill, the more metal dust it will make.

Not necessarily. Many woods are extremely abrasive, much more so than most metals. That is why wood router bits are commonly carbide tipped. Some woods are so abrasive that diamond tipped tools are recommended. The abrasiveness of many woods is due to high silica content, the same material used in some sandpapers. It will have the same effect on machine parts if not cleaned.

Also, some woods are chemically abrasive and will easily etch iron surfaces.

dsergison · Aug 18, 2006

what doesn't add up here?

#1 "My first job out of college"

#2 "I wonder if he would let me get the mill I want...."

dude, grow a pair. move out.

made on my Tree mill
http://www.sergisonmachine.net/images/wall4.jpg

since we all know Trees are made of wood they must not cut metal. and yet it is a metal cutting mill. clearly it must be a witch!

TomPracMac · Aug 19, 2006

1. Spindle Speeds. As others have mentioned, it's quite easy to overcome the mill's slow spindle speed by making a bracket to mount a router on the spindle 'quill'. Recently, to help out a local contract machining firm, I made brackets to mount routers on two of their Fadal VMCs. In one case the bracket was quite simple and holds only one router, and in the other case, it was a bit more complicated since it holds 4 routers. Works nice using the VMC's CNC capabilities ....
2. Wood Abrasiveness. Some woods are really rough on tools. While living in the Taiwan in the early 70's, I bought a pair of teak logs from Indonesia, and they were the worst I ever encountered -- so much silica in the pores that the boards created s few sparks when being bandsawed.

ottoluck · Aug 19, 2006

I mounted a Freud Router to the back side of the overarm!. Just swing the whole averarm 180* and you have yourself a variable speed router with a 1/4" & 1/2" collet capability. Works darn good, the last thing I would want to do is cut wood at such a low RPM capability of a "2J" head BP!. Eventually I would like to make a tilt unit to attach the router to, but I have'ent needed it yet. When working with wood, you just have to be sure to leave enough clearance, it's way to easy to make joints to tight and then "crack", and that really hurts!!...

ed thomas · Aug 19, 2006

Here is a picture of a guitar repair center using this:

to do this:

My own 1950 vintage Gorton 9J was $600. They can be had fairly cheaply if you watch and wait. You will need to supply 3 phase somehow.

I don't do much wood working, and tend to keep my machines separate. But don't rule out older metal machines for wood. They are still plenty precise enough for wood yet can be had for much less.

ow2knives · Aug 19, 2006

I have machined a great number of wood and ivory parts over the years. Cleaning the wood chips from your machine is very important. They soak up all the way oil. They also find their way into every nook and cranny and can block oil ways and ports - depending of course on the machine. My $.02

Owen

Milling wood and metal unsafe?

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Hot Rolled

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