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  1. #1
    Milacron's Avatar
    Milacron is offline Diamond
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    with standard height box, 16 foot length box, empty, highway....with 7.3 diesel ? with 6.0 diesel ?

    I'm guessing 12 with 7.3 and 13 with 6.0... what say ye ?

  2. #2
    mill hand is offline Senior Member
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    buy a dodge! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    adh2000 is offline Hot Rolled
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    Seems optimistic to me but what year is the vehicle? I'm only able to get 13mpg out of my 2001 Dodge 1 ton stakebed with Cummins. I don't have a 16 foot box, only a 12 foot stakebed. I do get some drag from the cab protector but not what I'd get with a full box. I'd guess more like 9 or 10mpg but we might need more information. The newer motors have features like 2 injections per stroke which improve fuel economy. In my case gearing is an issue, 6 speed manual transmission and a 2 speed rear end would help a lot especially when driving around empty, unfortunately they would only sell the thing with an automatic.

    Alan

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    Tom1 is offline Stainless
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    I would guess one or two MPG less than you. The reason being the gearing, most of the 450/550 are geared low.

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    Milacron's Avatar
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    My guess was based on my 2003 F350 with 6.0 diesel, that gets 19 mpg empty but gets 12 to 13 mpg hauling a 7x16 enclosed trailer. Was hoping with "trailer" integral to vehicle (box truck) mpg might be slightly higher, but then the box is a bit wider and sits higher so all important wind resistance would be more I suppose.

    My F350 has the "higher" gear ratio but presumed that same ratio would be common in E450..is it not ?

    Also, I made a long trip on an E350 box truck with V8 gas engine once and it got a solid 10 mpg, so one would figure the diesel has to better than 10mpg.


    buy a dodge!
    I don't recall ever seeing a Dodge van style box truck with diesel engine, which means your comment is a bit odd.

  6. #6
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    One point to look at is that a trailer provides little wind resistance...just whatever's on it...so you fight the wind only 1 way.

    With the box truck, you fight the wind loaded or unloaded (both ways on a round-trip).

    Of course the tradeoff being the nice benefit of being able to laugh off a rainstorm!

  7. #7
    adh2000 is offline Hot Rolled
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    that gets 19 mpg empty but gets 12 to 13 mpg hauling a 7x16 enclosed trailer
    Surprised you see so much difference loaded vs empty. I do not see that with my Cummins. I get 13 empty and 12 loaded. Even loaded heavy and pulling a trailer I still get 11 to 11.5. 19 sounds very good to me, I'm surprised. I think you must have a more favorable gear ratio than I do, that may also explain the difference loaded vs empty. Are you able to get into high gear loaded?

    I would expect the 450 will sit a lot higher than the 350. What size tires are on the 450 vs 350? Suspension will also have more "throw" which will raise the 450. A few inches in height will add a whole lot of drag. Still thinking you are optimistic.

    Alan

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    Milacron's Avatar
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    One point to look at is that a trailer provides little wind resistance...just whatever's on it...so you fight the wind only 1 way.

    With the box truck, you fight the wind loaded or unloaded (both ways on a round-trip).
    I presume you left out the word "open" before "trailer" in your first sentence ? The interesting thing about enclosed trailers or box trucks is that since the mpg reduction is mostly due to wind resistance, adding extra weight often gives no penality at all on the mpg. In fact I noticed a phenomen where the weight seemed to *add* to mpg on my enclosed trailer...in the mountains. Only thing I could figure is going up the hill was still mostly wind resistance, but going down there was some enertia benefits with the weight in the trailer.

    Re my F350, contributors to good mpg empty are the more modern 6.0 diesel, higher rear end ratio, and SRW rather than dually. 19 mpg is at interstate speeds, at 55 mph average..like on country roads, it get's 20 to 21 mpg.

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    Right...thinking flatbed but did not state....

  10. #10
    Milacron's Avatar
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    Surprised you see so much difference loaded vs empty
    Not talking about loaded vs unloaded in that case, as the trailer is under 3,500 lbs (i.e. neglible for that truck) but rather a major difference in wind resistances.

    I don't think an E450 sits but an inch or two higher than an E350. It's the mythical* E550 that is much taller, being at dock height box.

    *only available for a few years, discontined in 2003.

  11. #11
    gbent's Avatar
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    There are various manufactures of "nose cones" for boxes. They mount to the front of the box above the cab, and provide a rounded profile. For what it's worth, on a '89 GMC, 8.2T Detroit, 22 foot box, the nose cone added 1 mpg. Went from 7.2 to 8.2 mpg. Engine was governed out at 63 mph.

  12. #12
    Milacron's Avatar
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    gbent, insteresting..I wondered how much difference those little rounded things mounted on the box made. I know the deflectors that mount at the front of the cab do no good at all on straight trucks but are usefull for large semis where the trailer is a long seperation distance from the cab. What's the approx GVW of that GMC truck...is it over 26,000 lbs ?

  13. #13
    Tom1 is offline Stainless
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    My F350 has the "higher" gear ratio but presumed that same ratio would be common in E450..is it not ?
    I dont have any info to base it on, but usually the differances in the 350 to 450 to 550 have been the final drive ratios. I am not really up on modern Ford products(more of a GM person) but I would guess that the 450 is one lower than the 350. The 350 has 370 (?) the 450 may have 411 or 463, maybe the 550 a 488? How rare is the cutaway van with diesel most seem to be gas, not that I pay a lot of attention to them...

  14. #14
    gbent's Avatar
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    Don, the GMC is 28,000 GVW, single rear axle, 10.00-20 bias plys. It was eastern US legal, as was only 13' overall height.

  15. #15
    Milacron's Avatar
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    You know it's funny, on the 2,000 mile trip two weeks ago to St Louis and back I started thinking again about how a proper* box truck would have been perfect for that and so many other machinery hauling adventures. Diesel had started to some down less than regular again, so fuel costs didn't seem quite as much an issue.

    But just two weeks later, fuel has risen 40 to 50 cents a gallon ! And so, getting back to the fuel cringer again....I mean, it was painful enough getting 17 mpg (with trailer)up and 13.5 mpg back, for that long a distance, but driving a box truck that only got say 11 mpg no matter what, would be painful indeed. So, I just can't win....aaaaarrrgh ! :mad:


    *I already own a box truck, but it's hopeless for long trips....top speed is 65 mph, no cruise control, no stereo, box too short, etc.

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