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Whatza Shaperway?

Kevin D

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Location
Morrow, OH, USA
OK, what does a shaper way????

Doing a little homework on shapers I read that metlmunchr says on 17 Oct,'04
But, if you ever decide you really want a good sized normal shaper, I can put a 24" Rockford Hydraulic thats in excellent contition right in your home at a decent price......all 6 tons of it
Now, since me 'n metl' go way back on this board (minutes, if not hours or days) I'm more inclined to trust his estimate on this, but how could this fellow hope to sell a Rockwell Hyd Shaper by guessing the weight at 1/3 ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7521268796&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

How many of us would show up expecting to haul 4K and have the ability to haul 12K? Inquiring minds want to know...
 
Load that 24" Rockford shaper in the average 3/4 ton PU and you'll squash the frame right down on the rear axle. These suckers are heavy, maybe a ton or more than an all mechanical one of the same era like a G&E or a Cincinnatti. I'd guess the weight at 7,000 lb maybe a bit more.

Part of the extra beef comes with Rockford overdesign and part from the monstrous OilGear hydraulic power unit.
 
Thanks Forrest,

I've got a dump trailer that'll haul 4 tons OK, and sometimes at the quarry they've loaded it at 5 tons. The trailer, and truck can sure tell the difference. Fortunately the quarry is just a few miles from home.

6 tons is just out of the question, jeesh!
 
I inspected a 24" Rockford late version hydraulic in Calgary before getting me Mitts and Merrill (thanks Forrest for the advice- its a good one). The Rockford weighed 9000 lbs including vice on the sellers scale. The Rockford is significantly bigger and taller than any other 24" including Cinci, G+E, Elliot, TOS that I've seen.
 
I'll explain my basis for the 6 ton weight estimate. We've got a 12,000# Yale forklift, rated at 24" loadcenter that I've used to move mine around with a few times. It's easy to get the shaper in tight enough to the mast to keep it within 24". Once the shaper is lifted, with the forklift on level concrete, the tail end of the lift is so light that you have to be careful not to turn the wheels too sharp or they'll simply skid across the surface. The forklift doesn't have any sort of capacity reducing attachments installed, and we've used it for 20 years on lots of things where the weight was known, and it will handle the rated capacity with no problem. When you begin to lose the ability to steer, you know you're at, or a bit above capacity, hence my guess of 12K#. FWIW, the book net weight on my Blanchard (18-42) is 13,365#, and the same forklift handles the Blanchard in the identical manner to which it handles the 24" Rockford. I think these critters are just an example of highly concentrated weight that will fool you even if you think you're overestimating.
 
There were two versions of 24" Rockford hydraulic shaper, the '24" standard' which was basically the same as their 16" shaper, with a longer stroke, and then there was their '24" Heavy Duty', a much more generally massive machine, for which the term 'heavy' was 'truth-in-advertising'.

I can tell you that a 6000# forklift will handle a 16" or standard 24" Rockford hydraulic with ease.....the 'heavy pattern' is a different story.

We had a 16" Rockford hydraulic which we used ourselves, a good, fast, accurate machine.....with stable material, and a good tool grind, you could generally rely on .001 per foot, with a bit of care.

The Rockford would do surprisingly high finishes in steels, particularly some of the stainlesses....this was good for impressing clients who were accustomed to milled work.

We worked on some other Rockfords, one time and another, and there are a couple of details about these which will need a bit of care.....the oil in the hydraulic system will degrade in time, so drain, clean the reservoir, and refill with the oil the Rockford people specify....I forget just which oil that was, now, so call them and get the gen.....

There is one somewhat 'tricky' aspect to these....the smooth reversal of the ram is done by oil restriction in parts they call 'chokes'....which have to be delicately adjusted so that the ram will reverse smoothly at all speeds....set them after the machine has been running awhile and the oil is up to normal operating temperature.

There is another detail about these about which you must be ever so careful.....these were originally supplied with a 'safety crank' for the cross and elevating screws.

The safety-crank was provided with an internal tooth arrangement which allowed engagement of the crank handle by pressing in on the handle, but otherwise kept the handle free relative to the crank hub.

If the original safety-crank is missing, as will likely be the case, and a common machine crank has been substituted, the operator *must* remember to remove the crank before operating the electric rapid traverse....considering that the operator's leg or knee is likely to be within the circle described by the rapidly spinning crank, which, of course, would be spinning with enough force to cause terrible injury.

I would tend to think that the shaper advertised on ebay is one of the light pattern, as the motor hp is given as 7-1/2, which was standard for the light pattern machines.....I think the 24" heavy used a 10hp, but don't remember for sure....its been too many years.....so give the Rockford people a call for the gen on it.....

Also.....if you are thinking seriously about buying one of these, inspect the rail surfaces closely....many shapers will be found which saw a lot of service roughing down hot-rolled stock, and the scale from that stock will mix with the waylube to create an extremly abrasive substance, resulting in the rail surfaces being badly worn....some of the Rockfords were hard ways machines, but even the hard ways can be found badly worn on some units.....

This much I'll tell you, tho....if we had any work for a shaper these days, in our tiny shop here, and the shaper 'metl' is offering is a good serviceable one, I'd take him up on his offer in the proverbial micro-second.

cheers

Carla
 
I've seen a lot of big shapers at auctions etc espcially Mare Island Naval Ship yard. THEY WERE ALL BIG AND HEAVY! That machine weighs way more than they estimate!
 
the 16" rockford hydraulic in our shop is all you want on a 5k lift with 48" forks... I guess its weight somewheres around 6500-7000.. I don't doubt a 24" would weigh 8-9000... nor that a 6000 lb lift would move it. I once moved a 5000 lb stamping die at 24" load center with a 2750 lb. toyota lift.... steering was interesting. All lifts are not equal. some 6000 lb. lifts probably would do it where some may not. I know there was a 5k Allis Chalmers lift at the day job that was worthless, would not lift anything over capacity.
 
Thanks for that info Carla. Mine has the 10hp motor and the S/N is 118-HD-50, so I guess that explains why my guess of the weight of a 24 is a bit higher than the rest :D
 
Wow Carla, what a lot of info, thanks very much, you da' woman! :cool:

Thats a great bit of stuff to reflect on. I'm more inclined to a mechanical shaper, just because it is more comprehensible in my limited experience with hydraulics, especially with the forge being in the next room, all that nasty hydraulic fluid.

Also found this Cincinnati Shaper Which is more desireable, but it's another 3-4 hours away in Detroit... funny to bring a Cincinnati machine back closer to Cinci... but I digress, at my busiest time of year. For something that's a hobby. C'est le vie, not a bad conundrum at all
 








 
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