OT: Snap-On, Facom tools

Folks, whats your take on Facom automotive and general tools?
How does Facom compare to Snap-On.
Isn't Facom French? Are they sold here and if so are they made here or imported from Europe?

What are some other brands for good quality/durable tools specifically automotive. Only other pro tool brand I can think of is Mac.

I would rather buy a few top quality tools for now than buy many average quality tools for the same money.
I figure this way I would just have to spread my purchase out as money becomes available.

I believe that Facom is a French company and is associated with Britool and Sykes-Pickavent in the UK. I have no experience with Facom tools but have many Britool sockets, wrenches etc. and they are top quality, equal to Snap-on, which I also have.
Malc.

Facom is French, and owns the USA S-K brand and make decent tools under both names. They are about the same quality as Sears Craftsman. In fact, some Craftsman wrenches (the mirror polished ones about 10-15 years ago) were made by S-K. In my big city, there is no dealer for S-K/Facom. I have to drive thirty miles each way to the small town of Van Wert, OH to get warranty replacements. The retail price of S-K is too high to make it worth buying, but the Ohio dealer has sales twice a year.

I would say Craftsman is a better buy, when on sale. Sears stores are everywhere, so you can depend on free replacements for as long as they are in the tool business. They began the Craftsman brand in 1929, Before that, they sold Hillsdale tools, which also had a forever guarantee.

The brands that are sold to garage mechanics from trucks are overpriced and inconvenient for people not on their route. The truck owners make money because they get high prices and sell on weekly payment plans, with interest. The brands that I have seen on trucks are Snap-on, Matco, Mac, Cornwell, and S-K.

I have dealt with one each of the Mac and Snap-on truck owners, buying thousands of dollars worth of their tools. The Mac dealer suddenly stopped business, owing me several hundred dollars worth of warranty replacements that I never got. The Snap-on dealer seemed to lose interest in seeing me after I retired and had slowed down on buying new tools from him.

With no way to replace my Mac and Snap-on tools and too far to drive to replace my S-K tools, I only use my Craftsman tools anymore. The fancy brands will go to eBay eventually.

Larry

i have been using craftsman tools for over 40 years and have not had any problems.any one that has a lifetime warentiy. and you dont have to jump through hoops to get it replaced is good .

Larry...RE your warranty owed when the mac guy quit, call mac's 800 # and complain... I had to do that when I moved from one dealership to another and the mac guy serviceing the territory the new shop was in wouldn't come by....

I have been using Craftsman tools as long as I've been turning a wrench. I have been very satisfied with them (the mechanics tools, I don't like their power tools). However, recently, I've been in Sears looking for a particular size socket (recently a 10mm 12 point, and a 15/16 6 point) they don't have them in stock. They also had a lot of tags up saying that a particular socket will not be restocked. They have a bunch of "companion" brand stuff going up. Maybe it is just my local Sears that is getting worse, or is this indicative of a larger downward slide of Craftsman? Last time I needed a socket, I actually bought a Duralast from Autozone(Sears didn't stock it). I cringed at the time, but it appears to be a well made socket of Taiwan origin.

Sorry to get off topic, just had to do my short, "I'm really getting disappointed at Sears" rant. I still like most Craftsman mechanics tools, but if they aren't stocked, I might as well shop elsewhere. If Sears has to order them, I can do that myself. MSC and McMaster are both next day UPS ground for me. I'm just down the interstate from them. Last time I ordered from Sears, it took a couple of days.

Back on Topic, I have liked Snap-On(sockets, wrenches), Armstrong(wrenches), Proto(wrenches), Craftsman(wrenches, sockets, ratchets), Stahlwille(wrenches), and Elora(wrenches). The last two are German. I haven't used Mac or Facom, but I've heard good things about them.

Stahlwille used to make a really nice stud removal set of sockets (cams inside of them for grip) but then suddenly intruduced a waaay lower quality version.... (that's what I get for waiting to purchse when I NEEDED instead of when I WANTED)....how's that for a cheap rationalisation?.....'but honey, I hafta buy the *(insert tool here)*, before they quit making it'....heh heh heh

Facom if they are/S-K professional tools are very comparable to Snap-on. I've got a box of Snap-on's in the shop and I keep a box of Craftsman polished tools made by S-K in the garage. It helps me to know where they go when I'm done as I'm easily confused.

My Dad, a retired mechanic, has boxes of Craftsman, S-K, and Proto tools that are 50+ years old and still good. The only Snap-on's he has he got as gifts. He said "They're just pretty tools and too d***ed expensive", with some exceptions. Where Snap-on rules is in their specialty tools. They make stuff for specific applications that nobody else has

If Sears is going to their old inferior "Companion" brands, does that mean no more warranty.

Spud --

In general terms, there are four tool-brand players in the business of selling to US auto mechanics through "tool truck" dealers: Snap-On, Mac, MATCO, and Cornwell. None of these companies run their own fleet of trucks, although Mac tried for a while before going back to independent dealers. Of the MAKERS of these tool brands, only Cornwell is privately held, the others are brand names owned by the Big Three of the mechanics' tool world, Snap-On, Stanley, and Danaher, respectively.

Quality wise, I consider Facom to be the equal of any of these brands. Facom's Palm Control ratchets are the absolute belles of the ratchet ball in my opinion, although the rubber grip on the 1/4 inch drive model is too chubby.

Although I love the Facom tools, I would hesitate until they get their US distribution straightened out. Facom made a double-pronged entry into the US market in the early to mid 1980s by buying SK Tools from Dresser Industries; Facom continued SK's domestic manufacturing operations but added their French-made Facom tools to SK's distribution system. Last year, though, SK's US management bought SK Tool from Facom while agreeing to keep distributing Facom tools in the US. But shortly afterward Stanley Works bought Facom, which probably casts a bit of cloud over the US distribution question.

SK's website still shows the Facom logo, but contains a couple of press releases dealing with the leveraged buyout and SK's new status as an independent company.

There are several brands of mechanics' hand tools that are excellent quality, some sold primarily as "automotive" and some primarily as "industrial". Some of these brands have a cult-like following, and members of those cults will add heat to any relative-merit discussion without adding any light. They can usually be identified by their mindless mantras, perhaps the most common being "There IS a difference" and "Snap-On rules!".

Consider these:

Armstrong (primarily industrial, Danaher owned)

Cornwell (primarily automotive, private corporation)

Mac (primarily automotive, Stanley owned)

MATCO (primarily automotive, Danaher owned)

Proto (primarily industrial, Stanley owned)

SK Tools (primarily automotive, private corporation)

Snap-On (automotive and industrial, Snap-On owned)

J H Williams (primarily industrial, Snap-On owned)

SK Tools (primarily automotive, private corporation)

Wright Tools (primarily industrial, private corporation)

If I was buying tools today, I'd look first to Wright and then to SK. THEN I'd add the Facom Palm Control ratchets to my kit.

John

I've been using Craftsman hand tools for better than 30 years and they're great tools...
Unfortunately recent events have really made me question the intent of Sears. As With Kieth's experience my local Sears store are now stocking "off brand tools" and not as full a line of Craftsman tools, less expensive? yes. Cheaper? definetly ...
But that is not what troubles me...
My local Sears stores are still honoring the "lifetime guarentee" ...but only with the "ORIGINAL" bill of sale... how many of you keep reciepts for thity years? And the new reciepts are thermal prints which dont last a year.... Some great guarentee...Dont even get me started on the old "comercial" line of power tools that had "lifetime warrenty tags" riveted right on the case... Just my two cents..for what it's worth

Ive been wrenching for eight years and always used s-k and snapon. But lately i have very inpressed by the selection of tools at sears and canadian tire and have yet to find a job were either wouldn't cut it. The only time i find snapon on better is open ended wrenchs. As far as ratchets go i will use sears or canadain tire before i use a snapon, and i do own snapon ratchets.

Last year, though, SK's US management bought SK Tool from Facom

Click to expand...

Only recently have I bought SK because of this little fact. Cornwell, Wright and Proto are the brands that I tend to keep. Cornwells all metal polished ratchets are my favorite.

John Garner, nice post with lots of good info on tools.

My only expereince with Snap-on and Craftsman tools was when I took an automotive course at the Local voteck.
The instructor thought that the Snap-Ons were head and shoulders above the Craftsman. I did notice that the Snap-On sockets seemed to fit better and something about the edges/surfaces/finish seemed more precise/crisp

Snap-On offered 50% off discount to students of Automotive courses at the Voteck. I am going to be moving soon so no chance of rejoining the Voteck or I would get Snap-Ons

On ebay there are Facom/Sk tools at what seems like huge discounts. Less than half the factory list price.
What are your thoughts on factory list prices?Are they way over the top of what a dealer asks?

For instance on ebay,

http://cgi.ebay.com/SK-Hand-Tool-3-8-dr-47pc-6-point-Standard-Socket-Set_W0QQitemZ200010061158QQihZ010QQcategoryZ303QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Seller states it lists for $319 from Sk, his BIN is $129.99

I looked on the FACOM/SK website and the prices of their sets are expensive.

This is just for my personal use but it would be Light-Truck/Car rebuilding/renovation/restoration etc so its not just for the occasional oil change/small repair stuff.

If I can get Sk/Facom tools for Craftsman prices then should I go or it?

Most important; I need something rugged/durable because I don't molly-cuddle my tools.

Personally, I've always considered Snap-on the absolute best. My toolboxes are about 40% Snap-on, 20% Craftsman and the rest is a wide range of many of the US tool brands mentioned above and few others such as Bonney. A way to save some money on Snap-on is to but their industrial finish tools, same quality and warranty and they leave your wallet feeling a little heavier after the van pulls away.

As for Facom they are excellent tools, for the most on par with Snap-on. Their ergonomic line of screwdrivers is excellent. The French would argue that Facom is better than Snap-on. The Germans would argue that Stahlwille and/or Hazet are better than Snap-on. I've been living in Europe for the past 5 years now and I've added selected tools from these three sources to my collection and I'm quite happy with them all. (The Facom palm control ratchet has not been one of them; I'm going to have to look in some of mechanic’s toolboxes on Monday to see one of these things.)

Selecting hand tools often comes down to your personal preferences and how fat your wallet is (or how high your credit limit might be).

Love the information in the above post by John Garner - Thanks!

I bought Snap On when in the automotive trade because of the warranty support, everyone else at the time in the UK wanted to send a broken tool back to the lab & replace it
"Next Week, if it was faulty"
Snap On sorted it one way or the other on the spot, I needed this to make a living, things might have changed since,
Regards,
Nick

There is no way that Facom tools are comparable to Snap On and Stahlwille.

Sure they offer a good range of shiny good-looking tools, and have some good ideas, but the real test is after a few years use. The sockets and wrenches wear out, definitely mid-range quality, OK for a mid-range price.

I have spent over two years in France working on various sites, always with French guys who use almost all Facom - I have observed and compared, even bought the odd one. They just don't hack it I'm afraid.

Lately, I notice some guys in France are using "SAM" tools, they seem to offer a cheaper copy of Facom.

Spud --

That ebay set isn't Facom, it's SK. There is a difference. (typed while smirking a stupid sh*t-eatin' grin 'cause that very sentence is one of Snap-On's slogans so it should probably be in quotes with one of those "circled R" symbols behind it.)

The SK tools should serve your needs well.


Mike777 --

Are Belzer tools still on the market? They were, in my opinion, the very finest of the German tool lines. Sanvik bought Belzer maybe a couple of decades ago, when they were trying to become a major force in the mechanics' tool business. A few years ago, though, Sandvik decided that hand tools weren't their game and they sold their hand tool business to Snap-On.

My guess is that Snap-On's purchase of Sandvik's hand tool business played some role in Stanley's decision to buy Facom when Facom's owners decided they didn't want to play in that business either.


Larry in LV --

My earlier posting, following yours as it did, contained a line that could be interpreted to be a jab at your posting. I did not intend it as a catty remark, and I do agree that Snap-On is probably the leading maker of "special purpose" tools.

John

I work industrial maintenance and bought a set of Facom screwdrivers last year for my tool bag and have been VERY satisfied with the quality of the set-in fact I think they are nicer than my Snap-on set. Seceral of the guys have Facom wrenches in thier tool kits and they seem satisfied with them as well.
Luke

To John Garner
"That ebay set isn't Facom, it's SK. There is a difference"

Yeah I got slack in pointing out its SK. As far as the difference you mention, what is the difference?

For any of the tools mentioned; anybody have experience with them (especially the socket wrenches) losing their chrome or getting chipped off?

Which manufacturer's tools retains the metal around the buisness end the longest. I have had too many mediocre tools lose metal around the gripping edges.
Is their a particualr alloy of metal that has the best durability?

Spud, I have a set of Snap-on and Matcos and they have a better "feel" on a fitting or bolt than the Craftsman. The Craftsman is a bit "springy" on a fastener. The chrome has stayed on my Snap-on tools better than the Crafstman which has a tendancy to chip and flake. That said - I use my Crafstman tools the most when I'm working. The reason for this is that I work in a large factory and should one get lost it's no big deal. I used to work on the hydraulic systems of utility trucks and would not have been able to do my job without Snap-on or Matco. The crafstman tools were just not made to stand up to that kind of strain. Tools are a big investment and should be looked at as such. Craftsman are fine, but there are better tools to be had. I think you are on the right trac by looking to see what else is out there. Ebay can be a good source for finding some of the European makes out there and they seem to be quite nice. We have German and French companies coming into the factory that I work in frequantly and the tools they use look quite nice and usable -there just all metric. Hope this helps.

-Another good source for tools is finding guys that are retiring or selling out.

Luke