Lathe oil recommendations, many photos

barlow L · Dec 7, 2006

First and foremost, I have no manual, no information for this lathe. Research has turned up nothing. I've spoken with Tony at UK Lathes, nothing.
I have two choices, figure out what to use or leave whats in the sump there. I prefer not to leave the old oil in as I suspect it contaminated with cast iron as the rest of the lathe was.

This is the 30" Progres "free for the taking" ebay lathe.
The last coat of paint will be applied Friday night. Reassembly on Saturday. Here are some photo's of the innards.

Here is one of the external pump:

Thanks for any input,

Lee

Edit: the gearbox has clutches.

matt_isserstedt · Dec 7, 2006

Kind of reminds me of a Colchester 8000 series (which also has fluid-cooled clutches in the headstock). Looks in nice shape inside.

My details are fuzzy (on the Colchester...manuals squirrelled away) but I think I recalled ISO68 hydraulic oil for the headstock...the viscosity could be wrong but I think the cross-reference was a hydraulic oil.

Next choice on my list would be DTE Heavy/Med.

aboard_epsilon · Dec 7, 2006

My smart and brown has a similar arrangement of oil being pumped thru pipes to lubricate the bearings and gears ...
oil is stored in the lower 2 speed box.
the two speed box has wet clutches.
the top headstock is empty most of the time...just there to catch the oil and return it to the 2 speed box.

the headstock has a slight sump to catch debris.

this i cleaned out with a wet-n-dry ...vac ...with a small pipe tapped to the vac nozzle ...

by adding kerosene to the top sump and agitating it with an artists paint brush ...it diluted the muck ...enough for the vac to suck it up
the book recommends Mobil DTE light ...which has equivalent of ISO 32 hydraulic oil

rke[pler · Dec 7, 2006

It sure looks to me as though those oil lines are running to the spindle bearings. If so then you'll need to stay with something in the ISO 32 range, Mobil DTE Light or similar (you want a circulating oil with antioxidants).

With that tray doing a lot of the oiling you'll want the lathe level before running it overlong.

JRIowa · Dec 7, 2006

All of our big lathes like 5Ls, 5As, SC-36, etc, all use Mobil DTE-25. That's an ISO-46-AW hydraulic oil. That should be good for about 1,000 RPM spindle speed. I prefer the Anti-wear (AW) additive oils and would use DTE numbered series vs the named series.

Which ever oil that you use (ISO-32 or 46), check the headstock around the front spindle bearing for heat after it's run a while. If it were my machine, I'd clean it the best I could, fill with fresh oil, and then change again in a month or 2.
JR

jkilroy · Dec 7, 2006

Looks like you got quite a deal there, sturdy machine.

Mike C. · Dec 7, 2006

Yeah, I'd go with hydraulic oil myself.

nameH10 · Dec 7, 2006

barlow,

Not to go OT but are there pictures of the restoration in progress you can post?

Forrest Addy · Dec 7, 2006

That's a real machine tool. If the rest of the machine is as stout and unworn as the headstock gearing I'd say you really scored.

I'd suggest you consult with a local oil company's lubricating oil department. A lubrication tech will have books and references and company guides he can consult to give you the closest match to the manufacturer's original specs.

That said, a lathe headstock is not an exactling lubrication challenge. It sees onwhere near the loading of an auto transmission or the speed and heat of aircraft gearing. Most any non-detergent 15 to 20 wt gear or hydraulic oil will do. I'd reccommend agains ATF because of the staining small leaks leave in the paintwork.

Do not use motor oil on machine tools. Motor oils are designed to sequester moisture and release it when hot via the crank case ventillation. You don't want sequestered moisture in a machanism that never gets hot.

wippin' boy · Dec 7, 2006

i'm down for the aw46
we run it in a whole lot of headstocks
new and old

8ntsane · Dec 7, 2006

This is most likely a stupid question, as usual for me. But in this topic alone, the has been mention of ISO -AW-32 , AW46 and the AW68 hydrualic oils. My question is the numbers.
Is the AW32 for example the lite oil, and the higher up the number the thicker or heavyer stuff viscosity wise?

Thanks Paul

machtool · Dec 7, 2006

Paul.

That’s right. In the ISO VG numbering system, the higher the number, the heavier / thicker the oil viscosity.

So an ISO VG 5 might remind you of Kerosene. ISO VG 460 is not far off Maple syrup that’s been in the pantry.

Cheers Phil.

wesg · Dec 7, 2006

With the wet clutches you may want to stay away from the Anti-Wear oils.

Shimitup · Dec 7, 2006

Thats a nice machine, everbody seems pretty on as to using hydraulic oil, considering you don't get too heavy pumping it through those small lines. Forrest has a good idea about consulting lube manufacturer.
Problem with that is deciding among the staggering number of lubes many of which are probably fine.
Here's a link to see what I mean.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/Product_Information/Hydraulic_Oils_Collection.asp

vmil3 · Dec 7, 2006

When I saw the first pic, it looked like a Lodge & Shipley head stock, but more reading says wet clutches like our Lehmann Hytrol,or our Poreba, and my Lang lathe, we used AW46 in all these machines for over 40+yrs. no problems with the clutches.The 13" Lang can be spinning at 1500RPM in forward, push one main control lever, in 2 seconds she is going 1500 RPM in reverse.

Shimitup · Dec 7, 2006

I was just looking at Exxon Terrestic N EP, looks promising for this application

John Garner · Dec 7, 2006

Lee --

I'll swim upstream here, and suggest you take a look at the data sheet for Mobil Vactra #2. Yes, it's the de-facto standard way oil for "normal-size" machines, but it's much more than just a way oil.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENINDMOMobil_Vactra_Numbered.asp

I do find it interesting that Quaker Quintolubric synthetic hydraulic oil is included on the Mobil data sheet that Shimitup linked. Since Quaker Oil was swallowed by Pennzoil before Pennzoil was itself swallowed by Shell, I'm curious how Exxon/Mobil comes to list the Quintolubric.

John

BillSct · Dec 7, 2006

Third picture, bottom most oil line, right in the middle just below the gears...

Is that acrck/whole in the line? Is it supposed to be there?

spope14 · Dec 7, 2006

I use Texaco Regal RO 32 in the headstocks of all my lathes, this is the equivelant of the same oil spec'd for Emco V-13's with the same gear setup. For my Colchesters the spec is a hydraulic oil Rando HD 64 or 68 (not clear on the number, but it is Rando HD) I believe. Regal is also equivelant spec'd (ISO 32) for the carriage gearing on Emco's and for the carriage gearing on Clausings the Hydraulic oil is also spec'd.

Both have low foaming qualities, necessary when working with pumping systems or even "resivour systems". The Rando seems to work well, it foams less than a HD oil. I have to be careful in this regard, for if I go "non spec" I am liable for injuries on the machines due to improper maintenance procedures.

barlow L · Dec 7, 2006

Thanks everyone for responding. Is there a service that can analyze a sample of the oil presently in the sump. This assuming that the type in her is spec.

Is there a way to test the viscosity of contaminated oil? If I appear to be a complete dumb a$$ about this, well, it's because I am.

With all the suggestions, what would be a fail safe weight to use for moderate jobs until info on this lathe can be found, if ever?

Once we untape her, I'll post some photo's of my sons labor.

That hole in the tubing looks to have been cut by someone. There is nothing around that area that could have rubbed. Was it a oops or a factory field mod, your guess is as good as mine. I REALY hate having a machine with no manual.

Again, Thanks kindly to all

Lee

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