It only gets worse with the Ebay Lagun

So, for all of those following the saga of the Lagun I was high bidder (only bidder) on the shit continues. Here is the link for those that haven't seen it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3865228938&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

Notice the section of the listing that says that it includes

"center chuck and 2 vices"

So, after all the bs with the guy wanting $1000 more than the final price I pick up the trailer this morning and drive 125 miles thinking everything was good to go. I get there and the vises and indexer that were on the mill are nowhere to be seen. The son has to call the guy selling the machines to ask where they were. He says "None of that goes with the machine." So I am pissed. The mill is nice, nicer than I even thought after the 1st visit, but this kind of BS just ticks me off. I split sans mill. Oh, and it is now sitting outside under a tarp, which is too bad cause it is solid. In a month it will be a rusted hulk.

Notice the listing say "2 vices" not "2 vises". I guess that's accurate - he's a crook and a liar!

Vices is the UK spelling of what you spell vises.
Hood

jkilroy
Were you getting it for the price you bid on eBay? If thats the case it looks like he is trying to recoup some of the money he thought he lost out on by selling the vices etc seperately. I am not sure what I would have done in your situation but it is a shame to miss out on a good mill if its just the vices that were the prob. Then again I fully understand your frustration and I suppose principle might be a stronger emotion.
Just been a bad deal from the start :-(
Hood

No, I was not getting the mill for the 2500 that was agreed to. And if I was going to pay a stiff premium hell if I was going to leave without the whole meal deal. 50/50 chance he calls and wants to deal next week.

Anytime I do a local pickup I bring along a printed copy of the entire ad with photos. Already saved me once. Of course with this guy it would have made no difference. Good luck.

If this were me I would tell him to keep it. Then I would post your problems with him on Ebay. Too bad there are people like this. Just a few (dozen) years ago a hand shake and your word was better than any contract. Just my .02 worth.

Michael

OK well yes I would have walked away as well. With a bit of luck the guy will call but if not leave a link to the orig thread (on this forum) in your feedback for him. Remember to add the final outcome to the orig thread if you are going to do that.
Hood

sounds like you need someone to create an ebay id...something like "THIS_GUY_IS_A_FRAUD" and then bid the item every time it shows up...cant IMAGINE anyone out there would do that tho.....

scott

Threaten him with legal action! He has to complete the sale just as you do. Definitely contact ebay, he, as a seller, violated the rules. He can be bounced from ebay as a bare minimum. You have all the proof you need, the ebay auction page.

Been in business 25 years, had a few accounts payable problems in that time, never threatened legal action.....cause they know if it's under $5K transaction you aren't going to actually *do* legal action in reality, so it's an empty threat.

Much more ingenious (and cheaper) ways to get folks to pay up. Hell, I'll call someone at 3:00 AM and talk to their relatives if I have to. Do a Google on this guy and see what you come up with.

The IRS has a form to send to customers it is for unjust enrichment. I have used these forms in the past. The gov makes who ever is the receiver of money, tools, etc, pay the highest tax rate on these items.

Jerry

If it was nicer than you originally thought, I'd have taken the mill w/o the vises and chuck. Then, I'd have stopped in a lawyers office on the way out of town to start legal action. Even if it cost me some bucks, I'd make sure the guy knew what he did was wrong-Jerald

I'm going to give him a few days for the fraud complaint I filed with Ebay to catch up with him and then we will see what happens.

Listening to this whole thing, I think it is pretty simple and something I've seen a lot out here in my area. If I were you, I'd be justly upset, and done the same that you did, but just drop it and walk away. What's sad is that which no one is talking about, the larger issue as a whole. With the comming of CNC, and tons of Chineese competition, the tools that once apon a time cost some of these old timers/"Rembrant's of machinetools" a fortune are now almost worthless. In this case the son seems to be trying to sell a friend's tools, who probablly just can't come to gripse with reality. Some machinists are that for a reason. Machines don't talk back, and are entirely predictable as opposed to human beings, and many Machinists became that because their people skills are at absolute zero. Yep, I'd be pissed about the loss of my time driving and lost hopes, but what can you do. I know a few of these old timers (ones that did however have peopleskills) and some of them are so darn proud of their craftsmanship that their minds are still 30yrs in the past. Others on the other hand I know other old school machinists who know the power of CNC and understand what's happened to the manual line of machines. Think of watching 30 yrs of hard work and lots of money in capital machinery turn almost worthless. Additionally looking at those vises, and the rotary table, they hardly seem worth more then $300-500tops. Imagine trying to sell that concept to this guy.

Adam

Adam,
You hit that nail right on the head.
David from jax

"Been in business 25 years, had a few accounts payable problems in that time, never threatened legal action.....cause they know if it's under $5K transaction you aren't going to actually *do* legal action in reality, so it's an empty threat"

Don, I disagree on this. It is very easy to file suit on anyone in small claims court. A lawyer is not needed as well. An eBay transaction is a binding contract and if seller doesn't sell at contract price that's called breach of contract. Buyer can also file suit for damages. Buyer can get a judgement and then get the sheriff to seize the asset(s) or seize money from seller's bank account. It's a PITA to do this, but is something that buyer should confront seller with and I'm sure seller will realize he'll get his ass handed to him in court.

I know people who have successfully done this, including myself.

TK

I may be misunderstanding what transpired but I have the impression that a private agreement was reached between seller/buyer OUTSIDE ebay and that the price went up?

It may get a little cloudy as to what actually happened, what was involved in the sale and who defaulted if this has to go to court ...

As angry as I would be about this, I'd try to walk away from it and let it go. Reading what Adam wrote above would help me do this, I think.

Too bad, I'm really sorry that you didn't get the machine, it looks like a beauty.