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Top of the line vertical bandsaws- does anyone care ?

Milacron

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Location
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Seems like whenever I've mentioned anything about the better vertical bandsaws on this or one of the other forums, no one comments further on the subject. I'm wondering if this is because the folks that would have cared, are now doing that sort of work on wire EDM, CNC plasma, or laser ? Or vertical milling shapes via CNC that would have been roughed out on the saw in years past.

Just wondering if the top of the line vertical bandsaws that would have commanded great respect years ago, are now thought of as a bit obsolete ?
 
I know a couple of people who have one of the older quality saws and would probably give up an leg or arm before selling the saw. One of them waited 4 or 5 years to get his Powermatic. Don't know the name of the other one but it appears of better quality.

A lot of handmade/custom knifemakers use them to cut the basic shape of the knife from bar stock before grinding. These guys mostly frown on automated machinery or heavy milling.
 
What would be an example?

My old Do-All Metalmaster is used regularly but not for the purposes advertised in the old ads - 1/16" blades and abrasive blades used in die making, etc. My uses are much more mundane - cutting things to size, roughing things out, and all that. Not that the Metalmaster is anything like top-of-the-line.

Cheers,
Bob Welland
 
Must still be a demand for them. I visited the old tech school a couple months ago. They are all updated now and have nice CNC turning and machining centers and a plunge EDM machine. They also have the most bad-ass new vertical band saw I've ever seen ('course I don't get out much anymore). Probably twice as massive as the big old Doall it replaced. It was a four-wheel affair and had over four feet of throat and a tricky-looking table feed.. apparatus... thingy. Anyway it was brand new and they don't blow money on that stuff unless they mean it.

Now I'm speaking in terms of my scale. Don's probably referring to machines weighing 20 tons. If your eyesight starts to go do you just get bigger machines? Don must be half-blind ! :D
 
what constitutes top of the line? do you mean
hydraulic table feed , built in band welder, a
chain drive steering system for contouring?
or do you mean non-enco-grizzly-china stuff

i have a Do-all myself .Grob and Powermatic and
Dake and Ka-zoo are also fine saws.

do-all was founded by the guy credited for
developing the first practical vertical bandsaws ,
Leighton Wilkie .

the vertical bandsaw is one of the most useful
and most used machines in my shop. for all the
little jobs or op's that would be very difficult
or impossible to do any other way. once you
have one you wonder how you ever lived without
it.
sawing is the most efficent way to remove
metal-only rivaled by drilling .
 
What would be an example?
IMHO, the finest manual vertical metalcutting bandsaw ever made is the DoAll 2613-3. Three speed transmission combined with push button controlled vari drive. With speed ranges from the lowest ever necessary to high enough for friction sawing and everything in between.

Table is powered and has both speed and force controls. Built in gearing and chain for handwheel controled contour cuts as well.

Of course a number of vertical saws had these features but the 2613-3 went even further with hydraulic blade tensioning, power blade guide post, and power table *tilt*

Having said that, the 2613 is a bit of a 'big muther' where one feels like they are 'killing a fly with a cannon' for many types of work.

Never used one, but I think I would like a Mossner Rekord (German) for general vertical saw work.
 
I think they're great, I just don't have the room or budget for one. I'd love to replace my Flexi Flyer (er..Dayton) sheet metal bodied 18" with a real rigid Do-all or Grob or some such saw. My Dayton is a lot better than my previous bandsaw (none) and is single phase friendly, but I'd push it over a cliff if I could get a better saw for the $300.00 I paid for this one that would fit in the same small space.

Someday....

John
 
In my opinion, the Tannweitz Di Saw is the top of the line, machine wise. It is an all cast iron machine.

It does not have the very high speeds and it really shouldn't use a wider blade than 1/2 inch. For general metal contour and other sawing in a precision machine shop, that is enough.

Once you focus your attention away from the mechanical aspects, the top of any bandsaw line is the one with the best blade guides.

Powermatic made a nice sawing machine, but I never liked the guides they had.

DoAll saws are not what I would call top of the line machines however their blade guides made them he choice for sawing close to the line in just about any shop.

German quality manufacture, silky smooth drive and knock-your-socks-off paint ain't going to cut it if you can't get the blade to follow the line.
 
A saw will never be obsolete. It'll never be thought of as high tech either lol, but it's necessary to have one to get most jobs done. Our fab shop has a huge vertical bandsaw with hydraulilc controls for cutting stuff like 3ft tall I beams and such. I don't know what brand it is for sure, not a DoAll though. On my end , the machine shop, you'll laugh, but the only saw we have is a JET horizontal band saw that has to be at least 25 yrs old. Anyone who thinks that all Chinese and or Taiwanese machinery is junk outta give that thing a whirl, as its cut more steel than 100 hobby machinists combined will ever see in 10 lifetimes. Before we got the big vertical, it was the only saw in the shop.
 
I have a Rollin , simple like me , easy blade changes , can put the vice on in seconds for stock cutoff and other things, easy enough four step pulley speed change arrangement ,offset throat.In my small shop its the cats a**.
 
the top of any bandsaw line is the one with the best blade guides.
Blade guides are excellent on the DoAll 2613, I recall their adjustablity was precise and simple to do.

But of course different types of blade guides by aftermarket suppliers that specialize in nothing but guides, can be installed on most any vertical bandsaw. Carter comes to mind as one of these aftermarket companies with good reputation.

Accurate wheel alignment, blade tracking is essential for a good saw as one doesn't want to blade guides to have to 'force' the blade into proper position, but just 'gently' guide it to it's ultimate destination and keep it there thoughout the stresses and strains of the cutting operation.
 
I have oftern said that if I only could have a single machine it would be a band saw, Very handy. But when I do that type of work, I am doing prototyping. It seems that alot of production shops have hardly any need for them any more and you are right, they are not used for the traditional toolmaker applications anymore. I don't think they will go the way of the shaper, but the demand is not there for the high end features anymore.
I was working on a DoALl 2013 the other day , getting it ready to sell and had to trim down some oak rocking chair rockers, to make them even befor laminating new bottoms on them, what a pleasure cutting wood on this saw, I could slice off a paper thin strip no problem. Of course that is a $12,ooo saw new today.
 
I love my Grob 4V-18 that I bought for $1000 at auction from Lockeed Martin in Grand Prairie, Tex. Tilting table, power feed, 4 speed gear box, variable speed, and welder. I do use my Roll-In more by a long shot though. Butch
 
My DoAll gets very little use since I do less fab work. Mostly used just for maintenance and fixtures, not for making product.
 
The power feed on a Grob is pneumatic. Better than nothing but hydraulic or servo controlled is much better.

I had a late model Korean bandsaw once with servo controlled power table feed....very nice...the Hardinge HLV-H of bandsaws !
 
I have a big old Grob, early fifties model that I bought from the nearby airbase. The power feed uses adjustable weights(up to 40 pounds) on a chain tensioner. It sure is usefull in my shop. Doug
 
I also have a Grob 18" NS`18 bandsaw and got it for 550 from ebay. Although I'm a hobbiest that make some small prototype tools, I find it very useful and it does cut to the line well. I wanted a DoAll but had no luck finding a decent one.
I have a great woodcutting Vertical saw too and it's a natural thing for me to saw out metal with the Grob. It was from a toolroom and is from the 50's. Well made tool.
 
The power feed uses adjustable weights(up to 40 pounds) on a chain tensioner
Ah yes, I had forgot the older Grobs used weights. Like pneumatic feed, better than nothing but speed and force control much better with hydraulic or DC drive systems, plus rapid table return functions.

Having said that, if power feed needed only occasionally, the weights and peumatic methods do have the "keep it simple" aspect in their favor, with less complexity to break down or leak....appealing to the "I Don't Need No Stinkin'__________" contingent to be sure ;)
 
Don,
One of the first jobs I had out of trade school was to build a new die that made stamps gears. The gear was about 6" in diameter, had about 30 teeth, and was stamped from 8 guage strip. The shop had done this several times before so they had a "master" to check the die section made from HT A-2.

The die section was about 10" square and 3" thick. After the section was cut, milled square, ground square, and the bolt and dowel holes drilled, the minor diameter of the gear was bored. The section was then put on a rotary table so you could locate and drill where the "master tooth" was. Blue the section up and scribe the teeth using the "master". Then it was over to the saw, cut and weld a 3/8" blade and start sawing teeth. After you get all of the teeth sawed out, it was over to the die filer and file until the "master" went in. Then tilt the table and file in the clearance. All of this took about 3 weeks.
The shop was thinking about getting a larger bandsaw with bandfiling capablility but bought a sinker EDM instead. That 3 week job went down to 10 days and the bandsaw never got used. Now, they still make the same die section in a couple of days with a wire EDM.
The bandsaw in a tool & die shop doesn't wear out anymore. Since about the only people using them are fab shops and prototype, the market got saturated. The bandsaw isn't obsolete in all area's, just the high use ones.
JR
 








 
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