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12-19-2004, 11:58 AM #1
Responding to Mark & Alistairs posts in the "Ebay FYI" topic.... Thanks chaps, I was reasonably pleased with the price on the S&B 1024VSL, I do agree with your comments regarding George (the dealer / vendor) he has been most obliging & forthcoming in my e-mails & telephone conversations, I am suitably confident that the machine will meet my expectations upon arrival.
Auction description & pic was as follows:
Ex university Smart & Brown Lathe in very good condition had very little use, I can deliver for the cost of diesel and time, With 3 and 4 jaw chucks with inside and outside jaws, Quick change toolpost and 7 tool holders, 24" between centres and 61/4" swing, Speeds from 300-2500 infintly variable, Miniwizard 2 axis DRO, New taper turning attachment, Chuck guard, light and suds, Chuck, live and dead centres for tail stock, Metric and Imperial dials and screw cutting, 40 mm bore, Manuals for lathe and DRO.
My winning bid was £2100 + VAT at £367.50 + delivery at £250, Total £2717.50
I recently chased a very nice sounding CVA 1A up to £2,500 & missed it by 13 seconds at that price, I suspect the winning bidder was using a snipe & it therefore could have gone even higher. The CVA was a bare machine without even a toolpost & on reflection I would probably have been making a rod for my own back to subsequently source the, essential to my intended usage, taper turning attachment let alone the likely cost. CVA's in good condition appear to be very scarce & 3 or 4 machines that I have inquired about at machinery dealers & on Ebay have been pretty rough old things that would almost certainly require major reconditioning, for which I have neither the time nor appetite for the likely cost.
The S&B 1024VSL had been high on my list, particularly after seeing the detail pics of Alistairs superb example & speaking to a few skilled machinists who had used these lathes. I found perhaps 3 or 4 at various machinery dealers all around the £2000 mark but strangely none had the taper turning attachment, I found that the older round head models advertised mostly had the attachment but the later square head VSL's did not, whether this was a standard accessory on the round head that became an extra on the square head I do not know. Another plus point for the S&B is that the manufacturers are still in business supplying parts & service, very helpfull people too, apparently the last new S&B lathes were supplied only 2 years ago. Hopefully the machine & it's performance will meet my expectations when I turn some swarf with it in January (chips are made by the wife in England)
My experience in this purchase does seem to suggest that the price for a good lathe of this type in England has increased considerably in the last year or so, 2 to 3 grand looks to be the mark, whether due to the Ebay effect one can not be sure but a positive aspect might be that less machines will be flogged off to third world countries for peanuts as has previously been the case.
Another little success that I may as well share whilst I'm at it is the Alexander toolroom mill (Deckel FP1 clone) I won off Ebay yesterday. In this case I will be collecting the machine after the new year holiday & am hoping that by removing all it's bolted on appendages & generous application of muscle power we can get it into a Mercedes Sprinter van & therefore save considerably on the cost of machinery movers.
Again, the machine sounds to be in excellent condition & the vendor seems to be a very genuine chap.
Auction description & pic was as follows:
This is a fabulous piece of equipment for the serious model maker or small industrial user. Perfect for home workshop or garage as it is single phase, this is in good working order and has been used for clock making for the last few years. Model: PG1E (20 degree P.A.), serial no. 1271 A multitude of accessories : 5" Jaw Swivel Machine Vice, Verical Milling Head, Horizontal Milling Over - Arm + Arbour, 40 off assorted cutters (gear, angle, radius etc), 22 off Assorted Collets (Imp + Metric), Fixed and Swivelling Universal tables, 2 off Boring Heads, Slotting / Shaping Attachment, Indexing / Dividing Head + Assorted Hole Plates, low voltage lamp, all user guides and catalogues for parts. An absolute gem of a machine, and a piece of equipment that does not come up for sale very often.
I had looked at a few Deckel FP1's & thought for some time that, particularly with the universal table, this type of mill could make certain tricky cylinder head machining jobs much easier to set up than on my series 1 Bridgeport. When this machine appeared on Ebay it looked perfect & even the better for being of English manufacture so I was delighted to win the auction. I look forward to figuring out it's intricacies in January.
12-19-2004, 12:52 PM #2
My word, Brian, those are pretty machines! They look to be well cared for, not as beat up as most machine tool appear in the photographs I'm accustomed to seeing.
Cheers and congratulations !
12-19-2004, 01:07 PM #3
Well done Brian.
Here are some pics of an Alex toolroom mill .....you must get it up to this standard [img]smile.gif[/img] ....found these in the RETIRED dropbox files.
btw I missed one of these on chris heapies site about a year ago ......It was badly descibed and I wasnt thinking strait.....thought it was something else .....phoned up two days later and the chap had let the alex tool room mill go for £50...ahhh well.
Hope to see you at the yahoo Smart and Brown group.
all the best.....mark
12-19-2004, 02:27 PM #4
Hey they painted it the samne colour as my drill lol
all the best.mark
12-20-2004, 08:25 AM #5
Brian, congratulations. I was watching that Alexander too (just curious, I'm Deckeled now and you got a real bargain, particularly with the accessories, and single phase, too...
Re lifting it - might be quite a challenge without a tail lift or the like. It'll be 650kg-odd, and I doubt removing the easy bits will take more than say 150kg off that, tops.
Mark, the machine shown above set up to shape gears belongs to Phil, who posts occasionally on the forum under pgp001 , but maybe he hasn't seen this as it's not in the Deckel section.
I was also kicking myself for not jumping onto that other Alexander on Chris Heapy's site quicker - it was literally a few hundred yards from my girlfriend's house! Sold by the time I called...
12-20-2004, 12:13 PM #6
I'm waiting on pictures of a "so-called" horizontal mill....no-name...below £100....maybe it will turn out to be an Alexander.
If he gets back to me with the pictures and I dont want the thing ......I will give you a stab at it Pete.
all the best...mark
12-20-2004, 03:18 PM #7
Thanks Brian, but I wasn't angling for another machine! Should have been clearer - I got myself a vintage Deckel FP1 a few weeks after seeing that Chris Heapy ad:
Much as I'd love another (leave one set up horiz, one vert maybe) space in the shed doesn't really permit... then again, for under £100 I might have to reconsider
12-20-2004, 08:16 PM #8
Thanks Randy, I will try to get some decent pics up when the machines arrive.
It was the accessories that prompted me to throw caution to the wind and go for it sight unseen, I had looked at a few Deckels & realised just how expensive it can be to accumulate the accessories over & above the cost of a good basic machine. My somewhat out of fashion patriotism endears me to English manufactured tools in preference to others, so it will sit more comfortably than a Deckel with my other English machines.
I'm sure you are quite right about the difficulties in moving the mill with a van (it was a rather daft idea that I may have done twenty years ago) , I have asked the chap who is delivering the lathe to quote for collection / delivery of the mill, probably much wiser for me to spend the day at work doing what I do best & earn the money to pay him to do what he does best.
Mark, if that turns out to be a hundred nickers worth of anything Alexander I would be grateful for second shout on it. And thanks for finding those pics, lovely looking machines made even nicer by the time & effort spent painting to such high standards, I just never seem to have time or the patience these days.