Help Needed--Colchester Student

speedy · Dec 19, 2004

I understand that the Colchester range are very solid reliable lathes.
I need some advice on the possibility of running Colchester Student MK2 or 1800 on 1ph 240v. Is this possible with any degree of success?? Will I have problems with the lathe operation? and what would these problems likely to be?? What are the pros and cons or am I better to use a VFD or other device. Electrical matters are like voodoo to me. :eek:

The MK2 or the 1800, which is the better lathe and for what reason.
cheers, Ken

matt_isserstedt · Dec 19, 2004

The motor must be configured for 230/440 volt operation to be successful on single phase. Check the motor dataplate. Odd voltages like 575v will not be easily compatible.

You can run the lathe with a simple static phase converter...some industrial pushbuttons, a relay and a capacitor, probably $50.

Next step up in cost and complexity is a rotary phase converter, figure in $200. That might be a better choice if you are considering multiple 3 phase machines in the future.

Highest quality, most features and highest cost is a VFD, I think probably on the order of $400-500 new for a multi-HP unit but I can't really speak with authority here...

Good luck!
-Matt

Alan · Dec 19, 2004

Ken,
Before I got my Master 2500 I looked closely into the Student 1800, IMO better in the home shop enviro since it does not have the clutches for Fwd / Rev (no foot brake either) but just a splash head lube system and the motor does the fwd / rev, this should make it very good to convert to single phase input VFD (about A$650) provided the motor data plate says 220 / 440 volts 3 phase, have a gander. From memory the motor is 3 Hp so about the limit for the normal 10 amp single phase wall outlet. The remainder of the machine looked to be the same as the 2500. If its been used with suds almost certain to have or had water in the apron saddle which can be as easy as a clean up or as complex as maybe some new shafts / gears if they have been in the water for a while. If its been treated well spindle bearing should be OK but if not extra expensive, last indication some time ago about A$1200. Otherwise a good machine. All the best Alan.

speedy · Dec 20, 2004

Thanks Matt, the lathe is out of town so I will talk to the owner. I am more 'attracted'to the MK2, alhough it is an earlier lathe? the layout is better suited to me as I need to sit at the lathe more often than not.
How are you keeping Alan ? I remember a post by JS mentioning that same problem with the enclosed apron, if they are left alone long enough the damage can be quite severe.
Is it necessary to use 'special' Colchester bearings??
merry christmas, Ken

Alan · Dec 20, 2004

Ken,
No sure if there are after market replacement bearings for the Gamet's in the lathe, I didn't have to go that far as the bearings were OK, but asked just incase. Fortunately the saddle internals were OK on my machine only needed a clean up and new seals, but I know now what to look for. All the best for Christmas and the New Year.

bob · Dec 20, 2004

Check the gear train carefully the few I have seen all had problems and VERY expensive to fix.
Bob

Mark McGrath · Dec 20, 2004

Re Gamet bearings.I have a mate who had a Student 1800 with shot bearings.The UK price for replacements was about $1500.He could not find alternatives.Gamet is owned by the 600 Group who own Colchester.I have been repairing machines for forty years and my personal thoughts are that the Colchester headstocks are soft.OK for a college or school but that`s about it.If I had to pick a Colchester it would be a Chipmaster or a Magnum.All the same they are a very popular lathe over here.
regards,Mark.

speedy · Dec 20, 2004

Thanks Alan and Bob, I'm learning something new every day. Mark, what do you mean by "soft"?, are you refering to operation of the h/stock or the build quality
There is not much good news coming my way

What recomendations do you have ?? I am looking for a replacement lathe with 700 BC, 150 - 175 CH and with a gap ; and I don't want anything too light. I am not a fan of Asian lathes but that might be a misplaced bias, are there any good brands out there or should I consider a European make?? what are my choices??
I appreciate your all responses.
cheers

, Ken

Alan · Dec 20, 2004

Ken,
Without stealing Mark's response I think he is refering to the rigidity in the headstock of the Student / Master it tends to be somewhat lightweight for industrial use, 2 bearing spindle etc. I suppose it all depends on your useage. Other makes that appear in Oz are Dean Smith & Grace, Graziano just have a look at the headstock internals (if you get a chance) they are massive compared to the Colchester. Asian lathes depending from where they were used can be a good deal, Victor, Hamatu, Takisawa and I'm sure there are others, but these are what I have looked at myself in your size range. At the end of the day doesn't matter what make, if its worn out it ain't much use, that's why it pays to look at whatever you decide on. Another got ya is the tendency for (cheaper) Asian lathes made for the USA market are Imperial, to convert these for the Metric market they bodgie them up where multiple change gears and thread indicator gears are required even with a quick change gearbox, look closely. Another is feed dials, Imp screw, metric dial, doesn't equal anything in a full turn a bit of a bugger. Better ones have transposition gears within the feed handle.

Don Kinzer · Dec 20, 2004

I have a Colchester Mk 1.5 Student. The Mk 1 and a half is the older round top style with the newer "safety apron".

I run mine on a rotary phase converter that I built using a nearly free 5HP Baldor motor.

Mine has a metric leadscrew and Imperial dials. This interesting combination allows me to cut metric threads using a threading dial (or the high speed threading attachment) but to cut Imperial threads I have to keep the half nuts engaged and reverse the spindle.

Don in Portland, OR

speedy · Dec 21, 2004

That's good to hear Alan, I had thoughts of poorly heat treated gears etc. The Colchester is the name that seems to be mentioned in most conversation ( maybe too much "old school"

)
The lathe is a distance away so I would have to rely on a friends' observation and opinion. I will make a note of the advise given here and pass it on .
Don, is that the model mentioned in "lathes. UK" that is a marriage of the MK1 and MK2?? It has the new design gears and improved apron?? How do you feel about the performance. I spoke to a bloke here who runs a "student 1800" and a "2500" he reckons that even the induction hardened beds are prone to wear at the H/stock region ( maybe lack of maintenance on his part???

)
cheers, Ken

Don Kinzer · Dec 21, 2004

Speedy, yes it is that "in between" model.

All lathe beds are subject to wear where they are used the most - typically near the headstock. That is true even if they are induction hardened.

Mine seems to be OK, with only moderate wear. I don't think that it was used in a production environment. It is almost 40 years old.

Here is a picture of it:
Don's Colchester Mk1.5 Student

Note that it has the Ainjest high speed threading attachment on the right side of the apron.

speedy · Dec 21, 2004

That is a real clean looking lathe Don

, have you refurbished it at all??
I like the appearance of the round head model , they are so "tactile".
Smooth flowing lines, handles and wheels that are designed to meld into your hands that is what I like.
That high speed attachment must be a boon. High speed thread cutting gives me the shites; my reflexes are duller these days

cheers, Ken

Hood · Dec 21, 2004

Nice lathe Don, much cleaner than mine LOL. I also have a mark 1.5 but mine has the conventional gearbox rather than the continental that yours has. I also have a third shaft control which makes threading simple. The third shaft is a control lever on the saddle and controls the forward, neutral and reverse of the motor. The motor is electromagnetically braked so when the shaft is put in the middle position the chuck stops (almost instantaniously) When threading I just keep the nut engaged and withdraw the tool at the end and reverse back ready for the next cut. My motor is two speed so I set the return at twice the speed of the cut. I have some pics of my lathe somewhere but would be to embarrased to post them after your pristine example.
My lathe was from Aberdeen University, there were four of them for sale and my step father got one also. His doesnt have the third shaft control but has fast thread attachment and also a taper attachment so we have the best of both worlds between us.

Hood

Don Kinzer · Dec 21, 2004

Speedy,

When I got the lathe it was leaking oil out of both gearboxes. I disassembled both and replaced all of the O-rings and seals, most of which are standard items. I made the necessary gaskets using an Exacto knife and a gasket punch set. I only had to purchase a few items from Clausing Service.

One of the gears in the head had a missing tooth which I repaired (after finding that a replacement gear would be several hundred dollars). Other than that, I just cleaned it up and painted it.

The high speed threading attachment is very nice but it is only useful for metric threading since my leadscrew is 6 mm pitch. For inch threading I have to keep the half nuts engaged and reverse the spindle.

The high speed threading attachments were also available for lathes with inch-based leadscrews. In that case the situation would be the reverse of mine.

speedy · Jan 8, 2005

My apologies for the delay in posting this reply..

Thanks for the info everyone, you have been a real help. I shall be taking possession of my Colchester MK2 later this month.
I see you are on the Colchester site Don and your lathe is getting plenty of exposure

cheers, Ken

speedy · Feb 6, 2005

It has finally arrived and has been moved into a temperary position. The electrician is wiring in a 1ph motor to test run and verify the machinery dealers assurance.
All in all it looks good with a few nicks and bangs but also with a new 3 jaw P&B chuck and taper turning attachment that looks a bit incomplete

. The gears look a bit suspect and may not be the correct train, we will see....

Here a couple of images.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/speeedy/Colchester1200DVC00295.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/speeedy/Colchester1200DVC00291.jpg

cheers, Ken

Hood · Feb 6, 2005

Tidy looking lathe you have there, and the gears look pretty good. To engage the feed gear just loosen the holding nut behind the large gear and swing to engage. I think you may be missing a wheel which is for a few of the larger TPI threads, it is usually mounted over the top of the lower gear(I think) and isnt used unless its required (obviously

).I have never used it but then again its there if I ever do need the course pitch.
Hood

bolsaboy · Jan 5, 2009

Don Kinzer said:
I have a Colchester Mk 1.5 Student. The Mk 1 and a half is the older round top style with the newer "safety apron".

I run mine on a rotary phase converter that I built using a nearly free 5HP Baldor motor.

Mine has a metric leadscrew and Imperial dials. This interesting combination allows me to cut metric threads using a threading dial (or the high speed threading attachment) but to cut Imperial threads I have to keep the half nuts engaged and reverse the spindle.

Don in Portland, OR

Dan would you have some info on building thet Phase Converter. I have a student with a 3hp 3ph 208/440volt motor. I still need to figure out how to change the voltage from 440 to 208. so if you have any info I'd really appreciate any help.

bolsaboy · Jan 8, 2009

speedy said:
My apologies for the delay in posting this reply..

Thanks for the info everyone, you have been a real help. I shall be taking possession of my Colchester MK2 later this month.
I see you are on the Colchester site Don and your lathe is getting plenty of exposure

cheers, Ken

Hey Speedy. What Colchester site are you refering to? Would you have the address? Is it on here? I'd like to take a look at it.

Help Needed--Colchester Student

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