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What about Birmingham machine tools?

Toomany Tools

Aluminum
Joined
May 23, 2005
Location
Corrales, NM
I'm in the process of outfitting a small gunsmith shop and I'm looking for a lathe and a knee mill. I've found that good prices can be had on Birmingham machine tools. I also know that these Chinese-made tools are marketed under several different names e.g. ENCO, Central Machine, etc. Does anyone have experience with these tools, particularly the knee mills? I'm very familiar with the 14x40 gear-head lathe but have never seen or used one of these mills. Thanks.
 
Do keyword search for 'birmingham'....this same question has already been asked and answered here at least 4 times...
 
My Birmingham Lux-Matter 13x40 inch lathe is Taiwanese made. Now I am an amateur home machinist, but I don't have any serious complaints. Your mileage may vary.

Regards,
-Art K
 
apparently the tiawanese stuff is better than the chinese...we just bought a chinese Acra Turn and I refused to use it and sent it back it was so bad...
Im shooting for the european stuff myself..
 
The last place I worked got 2 Birmingham mills. The were scratched up and freight damaged. One had a handle broken.

The vari-drives wouldn't adjust. You had to bump the brake as you turned it to increase the speed.

After the pulleys came off, we saw that the chain that goes in the adjustment wheel is hand drilled and drove into a blind hole so that you can pull it out.

The slots in the tables aren't cut true. I was machining a large plate of aluminum that I had squared up and noticed that you could see part of the t-slot on one end and it was hidden on the other end. About 4 degrees off.

You can't lay a shaft in the top of the t-slots because they are rough and unfinished (look like they were cut in with a chainsaw).

The slots in the table don't extend to the end of the table. If you were going to use the slots for keying a shaft, it would have to be 4" shorter than the table.

The power feed in the quill quit after about 2 weeks. Wouldn't stay engaged, you had to hold it,or wedge in a wrench from you die grinder.

Another thing is the large belt in the vari-drive got ate up after a month on one of them.

The longitudinal drive on the table has and extra gear in the cover . Change it after 1 week of use, or after cutting your first 1/2" keyway.
The small gear acts like a carbide cutter and mills the teeth off of the larger gear.

After a few new gears the table will only feed in one direction.

If you have to raise or lower the knee after setting up a part re-indicate it because it won't repeat.

We were told on the phone from a factory rep. that the one that eats belts is supposed to make a sound like a card in the spokes of a bicycle.

All of this happened in about 6 months. The local service company was someone that we knew.

He came out and saw it and laughed and told us "at least you bought 2 machines alike, eventually you will need to put both of them together to make one".

The place I work now bought 2 B'ham lathes. On the small one the rapid motor kept eating up the chinese cast iron gears.

The large one had rollers in the steady rest that weren't bearings, just some cold rolled that had holes drilled in it.

Jackal
 
Quote:"The large one had rollers in the steady rest that weren't bearings, just some cold rolled that had holes drilled in it."

Our Acra Turn had that...they were also loose and sloppy...also the smaller steady and the follower rest contact points were cold rolled, not brass...I bet those wouldnt mark a shaft or nothing
 
I got involved servicing a Birmingham machine.The parts I was sent didn't fit and had to modify them to fit machine.I got it running but I could see a bunch of other issues and problems with the machine. I also got stiffed on the service charges, which really didn't bother me,so I don't have to work on their junk again.Their on my "don't call me list" :D Martin
 
Well I owned 2 Birmingham belt drive mills back in 1993, both were flawless and ran for the 8 years I owned them 10 hours a day 5-6 days a week and never gave me any problems other than the switches. In fact I got $4500 a piece out of them with futaba DRO's on them when I sold them in 2001 actually only lost about $1000 per machine in 8 years of use.
I have 2 friends that have Birminghams in there garage shops and they both use the crap out of them and they have held up just fine. Both of theres are vari-drives. I worked for a guy part time that had one with ball screws, frequency drive and a power draw bar on them from the factory. His son sold it a few years ago when his dad passed away, the shop that bought it said it was as good as any Bridgeport they ever owned.
I have run dozens of Bridgeports over the years and my Birmingham mills were just as good as any Bridgeport I'd ever run, including the taiwanese built Brideports of the early to mid 80's.
Now I will say that the newer Birmingham mills don't look anything like the original 2 that I owned, with the exception of the bolts I could take Bridgeport parts and they would fit right on the Birmingham mills cause I used Brideport switches to replace the Birmingham units.
 
I have a friend that bought one last year, 9"x42" table if I remember right. It seems like a pretty decent machine. I wouldn't mind having one, their price is usualy fairly good. I've used a few different First mills and they have their problems too. Some models are worse than others.
 
mcruff ,
if you are interested call: Butler & Cook machine shop, 220 ball road, fort smith Ark, 72905. IF you are interested I am sure they will sell you both of their Birmingham mills at $4500 apiece and include the digital readouts.

Jackal
 
McGruff
my Birmingham mills were just as good as any Bridgeport I'd ever run
Cathead
FIRST mill, made in taiwan, back in OCT and its been a great machine.
jackal
[various... all bad]
sectal
got involved servicing a Birmingham machine.The parts I was sent didn't fit and had to modify them to fit machine.I got it running but I could see a bunch of other issues and problems with the machine
Like Starrett, older items manufactured somewhere other than China, seem to have some element of quality. Machines that used to be respectable appear to lose a lot of respectability when the manufacturing is moved to China. Japan used to be that way in the 50's-60's, but I would take Japanese manufactured items over most today. I don't want to be one of the guinea pigs that has to use the Chinese stuff until they get it straight. It appears that Chinese (Taiwanese) and Chinese (mainland China) are also different in quality these days. I guess you have to beware~!!!
 
I have a Birmingham knee mill that was made in Taiwan. It is a well-made machine - meehinite casting, ball screws, chromed ways, turcite on the saddle, and inverter head. I checked the machine carefully and it appears to be within all the published specs for squareness, etc. The head is very smooth and well balanced. There are certainly no gross problems like table slots out of square, and no mechanical or electrical problems. Overall I am happy with this mill.

I have some minor complaints. The manual is written in 'chinglish,' and is bad even by the low standards set by the competition. The plastic ball handles are cheezy. None of the scales are adjustable, and they're all off by just a bit. Those things are mostly trivial, yet still annoying. Even so I would not let these minor issues stand in the way of buying or recommending this machine.

I bought my mill from Quality Machine Tools. Matt (owner) posts in this forum fairly regularly. I recommend that you have a chat with him if you are looking at Birmingham machines. I would definitely buy another machine from him.

Glenn M.
 
I have a Birmingham 14 x 40 lathe and a Birmingham 9 x 42 mill which were purchased through C P Tools about two years ago. I have not had any problems with either machine and have been able to make some complex pieces with them. These were manufactured in Taiwan at the time and seem to me to be high quality equipment.
 
FWIW, I have heard in a number of places that Sharps make one of the nicer Chinese import mills and are generally of a higher quality than most of the imports. There are different brands that seem to have a little better design and quality control than others.

Sounds like Birmingham would not be one of the "above average" models. In that case, like any of the imports, your mileage may vary wildly from machine to machine. If possible, try to get a chance to see the particular machines you will receive before purchase.

BW
 
Quote:
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meehinite casting, ball screws, chromed ways, turcite on the saddle, and inverter head
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Help out a newbie. I know what ball screws and chromed ways are. What is meehinite casting and turcite? I've seen these terms used here before, but haven't been able to figure out what they are. Thanks!
 








 
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