100 Ton Press Hydraulics Help

kwhite362 · Sep 27, 2016

Hello,

I do not need any help on the structural side of the press. I want to build a 100 ton press but am having a hard time designing/sizing the hydraulics for the press and finding an economical way to achieve 100 tons.

If I use a hydraulic cylinder at 3000 psi I need roughly a 10" cylinder which the price on is ridiculous... If I try to find a pump that puts out more than 3000 psi it gets really expensive. I have read some forums on the frame but no one I have been able to find has had a write up on how they got the hydraulics to work. I want to use one cylinder in the center. It can be air over hydraulic or electric over hydraulic that doesn't make a huge difference to me. I just want it to reach the 100 ton mark and not be more expensive than I could just buy a cheap one..

Thank you for your help in advance!!

bloomautomatic · Sep 27, 2016

Hydraulic equipment isn't cheap, unless you find used equipment. We use 55 ton 6" stroke simplex cylinders for some of our conveyance. They run about $1100 each. A 100 ton would be a good bit more.

Those are rated for that tonnage at 10,000 psi. A simplex G5 pump is around $3500, and can put out 10,000psi. You'll be over $5,000 for the hydraulics alone.

here's a used 150 ton for $5500. Looks like it might be air over hydraulic.
Used Dake Hydraulic H Frame Press | HGR Industrial Surplus

tksimplex.com has all the info on their cylinders and pumps for sizing, etc.

v

kwhite362 said:
Hello,

I do not need any help on the structural side of the press. I want to build a 100 ton press but am having a hard time designing/sizing the hydraulics for the press and finding an economical way to achieve 100 tons.

If I use a hydraulic cylinder at 3000 psi I need roughly a 10" cylinder which the price on is ridiculous... If I try to find a pump that puts out more than 3000 psi it gets really expensive. I have read some forums on the frame but no one I have been able to find has had a write up on how they got the hydraulics to work. I want to use one cylinder in the center. It can be air over hydraulic or electric over hydraulic that doesn't make a huge difference to me. I just want it to reach the 100 ton mark and not be more expensive than I could just buy a cheap one..

Thank you for your help in advance!!

Limy Sami · Sep 27, 2016

I know it depends on the stroke length you need but look at mechanical advantage i.e. 50ton on a 2 - 1 fulcrum = 100 ton

sealark37 · Sep 27, 2016

When you go above 3000 psi in system pressure, the cost of components and fittings rises geometrically. If you want help/suggestions, you need to offer more of your specifications. As a side note, having used vertical and horizontal presses in the 100 ton range, the horizontal offers several advantages if you work on longer work. Regards, Clark

kwhite362 · Sep 27, 2016

I do not need a super long stroke, it will be used to do a little punching and bending. This is why I want to try and keep it cheap at first to see if I can make any money off of it. I was told to bend 1/4" plate you need 20 tons per foot and I am trying to make something where I need to bend 4' of that so I wanted to overbuild it a little..

I do understand a press brake would be a way better route to go for bending but that is way out of my price range again and just have a small thing going here for now.

I am not sure how I could do a fulcrum for a H-frame style press, which is what I am kind of envisioning.

If there are any ideas out there feel free to send them, but know that I am trying to save money because I am unsure if I can make this pay for itself right now.

dsergison · Sep 27, 2016

Well, I have a SPC powerteam electric 10,000 psi double acting 220v 2 stage powerpack surplus to my needs. (I found it way to fast for my tiny 2 square inch cylinder I usually use, I went to air/hyd)

Ohio Power Tool - Power Team Electric Hydraulic Pump - Double Acting PE554 (except mine is 220v)

That unit plus any 10k cylinder will get you rolling.

PM me if interested.

HuFlungDung · Sep 27, 2016

Limy Sami said:
I know it depends on the stroke length you need but look at mechanical advantage i.e. 50ton on a 2 - 1 fulcrum = 100 ton

This is actually a pretty good idea if you want to make a bending brake. You don't want a single cylinder pushing down in the center of some 4 foot long die, it is liable to be pushing off to one side or the other, if the work is not exactly centered, and that is going to apply serious bending forces to your ram.

You'd be better off to make a mechanical linkage to each end of your die, operated by a pivot arm that acts in torsion from the force placed on a lever arm in the center of the pivot shaft by your cylinder. A 100 ton brake is serious business.

gwilson · Sep 27, 2016

You do not want a really large diameter cylinder for your press. You'd need an ENORMOUS pump with a HUGE reservoir to pump it up much at all. My Enerpac 100 ton bottle jack has a 6" dia. cylinder and takes 10,000 PSI to get the full tonnage. Finding a suitable pump was the hardest part,but eventually a member here sold me a suitable one. Otherwise,the cost of a new one would have been much more than I wanted to pay. Of course,we do not always get what we want,do we!!

Anyway,you want a 10,000 PSI cylinder and a pump that has enough volume of fluid to push the ram how many inches you need it to go. Keep an eye on Ebay.

You will have to make a go to Hell strong frame to not self destruct with a 100 ton jack!

idacal · Sep 27, 2016

i built a smaller one than that I have a 4000 psi pump from surplus center and a 7.5" cylinder on it. took a long time to find a cylinder even in that size range cant imagine trying to find a 10" I finally found one off of an excavator that they sold by the pound, still expensive, by the time I shortened it and repacked it I was still over a grand in it. Its not going to be cheap

solidworks4u · Sep 27, 2016

Talking about mechanical advantage, the toggle press seems the correct fit to me for a press break style of work the OP was seeking. The down side is the bearings on the toggle part need to be big diameter with a method to lubricate and a method to control positing while toggle is in motion. It would have several cylinders coming from the back, pushing to the front. It will be large.

Bill D · Sep 27, 2016

If the recommendation is to use a lever to spread out the force how about two or more cylinders in parallel? Will they just fight each other and cause problems.
Bill D.

HuFlungDung · Sep 27, 2016

Bill D said:
If the recommendation is to use a lever to spread out the force how about two or more cylinders in parallel? Will they just fight each other and cause problems.
Bill D.

The cylinder experiencing the most resistance load will stop moving while the other one continues to move. This can bend your machine. There may be fancy flow dividers that will prevent this, although I am not sure that they work 100% under all sorts of variable loads, and, what you want in a parallel cylinder press, is 100% uniform movement of the cylinders. There might be a modern way to do that accurately with servo valves with position feedback of some sort.

hobbyman · Sep 27, 2016

I once worked in a fab shop that was in the middle of several open pit mines. The local hydraulics shops were regularly servicing large cylinders for ore trucks. The shop I was in scored one of these lift cylinders for a shop made press. The press frame was completely mobile and could be picked up and set anywhere outside in the yard. One of the large forklifts was outfitted with quick disconnects and spool valving to operate the press. This particular press was a horizontal bulldozer for putting cambers in large beams. The setup would be used for something like a day then the forklift would be put back to regular work and the press frame set in the back of the yard.

Davis In SC · Sep 27, 2016

gwilson said:
You do not want a really large diameter cylinder for your press. You'd need an ENORMOUS pump with a HUGE reservoir to pump it up much at all. My Enerpac 100 ton bottle jack has a 6" dia. cylinder and takes 10,000 PSI to get the full tonnage. Finding a suitable pump was the hardest part,but eventually a member here sold me a suitable one. Otherwise,the cost of a new one would have been much more than I wanted to pay. Of course,we do not always get what we want,do we!!

Anyway,you want a 10,000 PSI cylinder and a pump that has enough volume of fluid to push the ram how many inches you need it to go. Keep an eye on Ebay.

You will have to make a go to Hell strong frame to not self destruct with a 100 ton jack!

100 tons unleashed scares the $%%#^ out of me...

idacal · Sep 27, 2016

here is an 11" casing jack after it released in another way scared the bejesus out of me. and it was stupid, stupid, screw up. Overload set to high and I bumped the valve into detent backing it down and then going to do something else, it didn't realize it, and it wasn't designed to be pressured up that direction

WizardOfBoz · Sep 27, 2016

Agree with gwilson. A 100 ton casing jack (below) has two 6" diameter cylinders. A 100 ton single would be about 9, maybe 10 inches. This would be about 4000psi I think. But the power packs for these units use 27 and 50hp diesels. Granted, that's for a "rapid traverse" system, but it gives you an idea of the type of power needed. And the reservoir.

I would think that getting the power evenly distributed to both ends of the moving part of your press would be a difficulty needing to be addressed.

swarfless · Sep 27, 2016

Maybe the OP should do a rethink, ditch hydraulics. Maybe a progressive rolling process, or rather the equipment for, might be cheaper for the bend. Slower tho'. Without knowing the geometry under consideration this might also just be hot air. Came out of the hole in my head usually used for eating/drinking. Still need some sort of punch press or iron worker for those holes he mentioned.

JS · Sep 27, 2016

Just buy a press. Power team makes a press for about $6700 complete.

100 ton ENERPAC cylinder 18" overall length $5700.

Power unit for damn thing about $8000. It's a big one I don't like waiting all day to advance hydraulic cylinders.

Pressure Gage and special hose, and fittings are extra.

Ignorance of hydraulics should scare people more then 100 ton press.

I've got a 1000 ton press at work.

Anyone ever seen that guy getting a bigger hammer? Had two, they bent 10" shaft putting conveyor parts together...

Just be careful.

kpotter · Sep 27, 2016

We build hydraulic presses. You are stuck with either a large bore cylinder and big pump or a small bore cylinder and a high pressure pump. Either way is not cheap. I just built a 300 ton press using an enerpac cylinder and a pump we put together using a rivett dynex radial piston pump. My primary press is a 500 ton that uses a 20 inch diameter cylinder and a 20 hp motor with a high volume low pressure pump. I put a flow control on it so I can make it crawl because we use it for die hobbing. I would use 2 6 inch bore cylinders that will get you close and it wont cost that much. A simple gear pump that goes to 3500 psi and maybe a 2hp motor. The press will be slow but it will get the job done.

kwhite362 · Sep 28, 2016

I thought about going with two cylinders and know enough about hydraulics but am no genius.. Will they fight each other at all? I mean I would put like a spreader bar between the cylinders so they move together. I am not worrying about "bending" the press. I just want to make sure that one side won't push harder and bend one side of the metal more than the other or something weird like that.

Kpotter I can do a google search on pumps and motors but again I'm trying to keep it somewhat cheap but what brand or where would you buy the pumps and motor from? If at all possible I would like a complete system ready to go.

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