Equipment Selection: Lagun vs Alliant vs Rockwell

The person who had the Alliant milling machine I was going to buy welched on the deal. Ironically, shortly after he did so, the machine's head apparently went FUBAR after some bad adjustments to the quill and vari-speed.

So I have found three mills I can afford, with the following specs:

Note any Price I quote includes shipped to my shop and setup.

Rockwell Vertical and Horizontal Mill circa 1978-1979, owned by State of Georgia and Dade County. Never used very much. $1300. Excellent vertical milling machine, the horizontal arbor is missing. I took a 30 taper horizontal arbor with me and it worked great, the original just probably got misplaced. 3 phase, so will require a phase converter for sure. I have seen run and it is very, very quiet. Like unnerving quiet.

Alliant RT2V Milling Machine: $900. Has a 3 axis Sony DRO, 3hp Skye motor. The machine's paint looks like hell and the machine has obviously been used. I cannot hear it run because the power is off to the building it is at. The other equipment this place has for sale looks like hell- paint is terrible on everything, everything is dirty, but everything seemed to run acceptably. I have heard that if this machine has the Varispeed head- that if the head is screwed- I am screwed. The price is not a reflection of quality, neccessarily. It is a reflection of the banker handling the sale- I missed out on a beautiful Leblond 18" lathe with 12 foot bed for $400, that ran perfectly and while the paint was terrible there was not a spec of rust or anything wrong with it. So while this machine has a ton of missing paint, it has been inside all it's life, the ways are chrome and don't seem too bad.

The final machine is a 1987 Lagun 3hp vertical mill with power and manual feeds on all axis, German made DRO. This machine came off the Cherry Point Marine base, and it sat outside for some time. I have no way of knowing if it runs, however, I've been told with it tarped up and sold as running when taken out of service, that it probably wasn't ruined setting outside. The paint on this machine is very nice, but the table is very, very rusty and the ways have rust and built up scale on them. This guy can be bought for $2000. Machine is 3 phase.

Basically I have about $2500 to spend. I am looking for another good machine to augment my producing motorcycle parts- forward controls, covers, various parts, also parts and repair items for farm equipment on my farm and for other people I know. I am 30, I own my own business, I had mainly been involved in repair but a lot of people would rather pay for a decent parts so I have started building parts for people and doing more complicated repairs as this closest decent automotive machine and fabrication shop is two hours away. Example: just repaired a set of heads for a Harley XR750, just did a springer front end, and a girder front end.

It has gotten old using an Manhattan(now MSC) USA made table top mill, and Chinese junk. That was okay when I was a teenager and doing things for myself, but when someone is bringing me their parts or projects, that sh*t doesn't cut it.

The only real downside to the Rockwell is the table size(12x26) and the fact it isn't as powerful as either of the other two. On the other two, I have fairly reliable individuals telling me that they do run, but I can't hear either one.

It is more of a gamble on the Alliant or the Lagun, but I know I will not outgrow the Lagun or Alliant. I, may, infact outgrow the Rockwell. Though another upshot to the Rockwell is that when I was younger I had the opportunity to use a Craftsman(Atlas) horizontal mill that had a Rusok Vertical head attached, and I really liked having both vertical and horizontal milling options at my beck and call.

I know some of you would not settle for any of these options, but let me explain my situation: I realize with buying any used machine- be it a motorcycle or a mill- you are to some extent buying a pig in a poke. I live in a heavily rural area that is a black hole on machines. Getting a machine shipped to the closest truck terminal is about $500 if I AM LUCKY, and then it is a two hour drive trailering it home. With any of the machines listed above, the price includes getting the machine to my location and setting it up. If I blow this right now, it could be months before something else opens up, and I don't have months right now. I own my own home, my farm, and all my cars and motorcycles and tools outright- if I can't afford it, I don't buy it. And I cannot justify $4000-$8000 for a mill right now, when my lathe is undersized.

So, the question I have is, between the options presented, which one would you go for ?

Alliant mills are decent Taiwan Bridgeport copies. I'd go for that on price alone. While somethings can go wrong in a milling machine head, they are not that complicated and I'd roll the dice on it working.

Tom

Second vote for the Taiwan BP copy. I like mine a lot better than the BP I sold. It was well used yet no wear. The varispeed was trashed inside, easy to fix and parts are available.

You probably shouldn't be a machinist if you can't reconstruct a BP style varispeed head import or otherwise.

I would buy a mildly worn machine with a good DRO over a tight machine without one.

I'd vote for the Lagun, but with a catch....anything with rusty ways can be gotten for a lot less than $2000. I'd bet you could get it down around a thou or less if you can inspect it and have cash in hand. I wouldn't buy it if you can't inspect and see how easily it can be cleaned up.

Here's my project...there were some descent ways underneath all the rust and crappy solidified coolant ('79 FTV-3):
CNC Mill | Facebook

I'm gonna have to throw my vote in for the Rockwell. Your description makes it sound as though it is in very good shape.
Versatility being the key to my thinking. Put that lil' rascule to work, and if things go well, it should make you enough money to get a larger lathe and maybe a nice Wells-Index 860 mill (also a Horiz/Vert machine), later on.


Rex

Lagun forget the rockwell it is a hobby mill. Alliant is decent but not as good as the Lagun. Rust is not a deal breaker but check it out it might be ok, I have fixed up real rusty machines and they were free.

Get the Rockwell. It sounds like the only one that will be making parts for you from day one. Use it to make money to buy a larger mill and sell the Rockwell once the larger mill is making chips. You won't lose much, if anything, when you sell the Rockwell as it is a desirable hobbyist machine and you will have made enough off of it to finance a good machine.

I've got an Alliant that is a great mill. That isn't saying the one you are looking at is ( because of abuse, worn- out, etc).

Another thing to look at is the type of spindle ( tool holding) that is takes. R-8 is common as well as CAT 40.

If they take Kwik switch or Erickson tool holders, there is another large expense. Unless the holders are included.

Those Kwik switch 200 are getting harder to find. I bought some for $35 each a few years ago. Now you see them for $59 & up

on Flea-bay. Kwik switch 300 are a little cheaper & more plentiful.

Let us know what you get,

Good luck,

JAckal

Is there any way you can get 120v power to the lagun to see if the dro works? Don't let a little rust scare you on that Lagun. That's good iron and can be cleaned up.
i_r_

I think I'd keep looking.

Anything that's been sitting and rusting outside without even a proper thick greasing before being put out there is worth nothing as far as I'm concerned, and clearly wasn't worth anything to them either. An in person inspection might still be sorta worth it.
Otherwise in that list I'd put the Aliant #1 assuming no major parts damaged, even if the Lagun is a much better machine and I'm pleased with mine, but I got mine brand new.

After you make up your mind, would you be willing to share the sources of the other two? I'm in the market.

If your business is making custom parts for motorcycles and not restoring machines then I would go with the Rockwell and start making some money. Does the Rockwell have power feed on X-axis?
The reason I would go with the Rockwell if I were you is that it is ready to go and you know it works under power. Most of the work you do will fit within its work envelope. The lack of DRO or power feed can be fixed.
Full disclosure: I already have a Rockwell H/V mill with all the doodads. I wouldn't mid having another and keep one in horizontal configuration.
BTW: Even without a horizontal arbor I often use the horizontal spindle with a shell mill. It is great for squaring up work and the it will really plough some metal off.

That said.... If I were me and since I already have a working mill and some time I would go with the Lagun and fix it up.

-DU-

Ludasmith said:

After you make up your mind, would you be willing to share the sources of the other two? I'm in the market.

Click to expand...

I'd be happy to. But, one is 9 hours from you. One is 15 hours from you, and one is probably 11 hours from you. I am 8-9 hours from you, provided you are indeed in Pinehurst. I am in NC, but just barely.

Does "GearDoc" = R.D.?

geardoc said:

I'd be happy to. But, one is 9 hours from you. One is 15 hours from you, and one is probably 11 hours from you. I am 8-9 hours from you, provided you are indeed in Pinehurst. I am in NC, but just barely.

Click to expand...

Knew it would be too good to be true for me haha

I appreciate the thought though.

Buy the Rockwell immediately.

It'll do a lot of work right now and its small enough to keep around forever. Later on you can look for a bigger machine when you want and at your convenience. A nice VFD might run you $250 or so, which leaves you with lots of cash left in your budget for tooling. You'll end up with much more money tied up in tooling than you paid for a machine like that.

I made a move to buy both the Rockwell and the Alliant today. I don't know how it will end up.

The US military really let that Lagun go to hell in a handbasket, and I can't trust that it will clean up. It's DRO did power up. I tried to take a rotary phase converter and my 220 generator to run it, but that was not happening.

I wanted to let you know I did place my payment info on file for both. That's biting off a lot for me, but I had a moment of clarity this morning.

A guy stopped into my shop on a road trip from Florida with his Chinese forward controls flopping all over the place, the shifter already stripped out. I showed him the parts I make and a set I had partially finished for my FLHS and he wanted them. I had to finish them, and while one part was in my powder coat oven, I was milling on the brake control pedal that I was fitting to his 6'5" frame. The MSC mill just started dying. I had a Monarch USA motor that I rigged up, but it wasn't going to work. So, I had to take and get out an old drill press that I had long ago(when I was 15 and knew no better) set up to use an MT3 collet chuck. I managed to finish the work and get it powder coated, but I decided that would never happen again.

I'll sell some more parts or sell my Shovelhead I just built, but I can't work and machine and not have equipment. I realized it is one thing for a guy that's a hobbyist to only need a Seig or a table top unit, but it is quite another when it is your livelihood. I'm realizing that I may be pretty sick here in a few days when I get one or both and I start thinking about the fact that $2200-$2300 is half of a new Taiwanese knee mill.

I want to thank everyone for taking their time and offering their help. I will update with pic's soon, provided I am able to purchase.

Thanks again !

Saturday afternoon I bought a Wilton 4 1/2" machinists vise. Great shape, for $100!!

I was surprised, when I walked into the seller's garage, to see a Rockwell horiz/vert mill sitting along the wall.
The guy said he had bought it about 10 years ago when his local High School closed its metal shop. He also told me, "It's NOT for sale!"

Congrats!


Rex

henrya said:

Buy the Rockwell immediately.

It'll do a lot of work right now and its small enough to keep around forever. Later on you can look for a bigger machine when you want and at your convenience. A nice VFD might run you $250 or so, which leaves you with lots of cash left in your budget for tooling. You'll end up with much more money tied up in tooling than you paid for a machine like that.

Click to expand...

Late to the party, but you did exactly what I'd have done - buy the Rockwell and then the best of the 2 full-size mills.
That Rockwell will fit the work envelope of 90% of your jobs, and make you money from the first day. Be aware that they are tricky to tram perfectly, but other wise very nice machines. Take care of it and you can get your money back plus profit anytime you wish.

geardoc,

I think you will be pleased with the performance of the Rockwell. Even more so if it has power feed on X. If you have any questions about the care, feeding, and use of the Rockwell please ask.

Since you will have (eventually) a vertical mill and a horizontal mill and depending on the kind of cuts you have to make you may want to setup the Rockwell in horizontal mode with a few cutters spaced and use it for facing, squaring, corner-rounding and slotting work. Then use the vertical mill for plunging, drilling, type work. Lots of options.

-DU-