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4 Jaw Chuck Bison or Phase II
- Thread starter Pre64
- Start date
- Replies 21
- Views 6,063
cyanidekid
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2016
- Location
- Brooklyn NYC
maybe tell us what you are trying to put a chuck on, and what your "service" is and we could be a bit more help.??
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
"$375" is closer to $1500 - $2,500 dif for even the smaller (6") sizes most of use.
4-J are forgiving, since YOU, not a scroll, set the TIR.
I have 1 Bison +***, 2 SCA ++ ***, 1 Yuasa +++ **, 2 San Ou +**, all bought new or virgin NOS.
The plus signs are about which are the strongest built, the stars the nicest looking as to fit and finish. The particular Bison I have just happens to be a very slender one, not their usual. Average Bison is between an SCA and a Yuasa for "beef". Present-day Gators are nearly identical to Bisons, model for model.
Building a chuck to stand higher RPM and still have a strong grip (forged, semi-steel, or at least better-grade Iron) IS one of the major factors that raises the cost.
Not a lot wrong with a San Ou or a Vertex independent 4-Jaw for hobby use.
San Ou does at least put max RPM right on the face of the body, not just off in a brochure.
You can ALWAYS buy a better one, next go.
I have several others in 6" alone - US made, and made well. Also getting seriously tired in their old age, though.
I'd want MUCH better for scroll operated, and adjust-true/ tru-adjust wotever for-damned-sure.
The 6-Jaw Gator here has a forged body, and a forged D1-3 backplate.
I don't have any need of a 3-Jaw, the 6-J can handle hex stock - but if I did, probably a ToS Svitavy.
3CW
I am going to be doing gun barrels, octagon in particular. $ are just not there right now for a top tier chuck. My lathe is a Sheldon and its great, the chuck is a 3 jaw and does whats needed for round barrels. Need a 4 jaw for octagon work...and don't see a Yuasa D1-4 8 inch in the catalog.
R
R
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
AFAIK, if Yuasa/News is even still in business, (absorbed buy another Japanese firm last time I looked) they make only power chucks now. Much the same with the Swedish SCA. Exists in name-only nowadays, new parent is re-selling Bisons.
Suggest you start with an inexpensive San Ou, and in 6", not 8". You don't need the larger size for barreling unless you are doing auto cannons or mule-pack howitzers.
Nor, even in 6", do you need the 3,000 RPM + ratings I have to cater to here, and you may never need them.
TWO 4-J, since you have the quick and highly repeatable D1 mount, one with jaws left reversed, the other not, is a handy place to invest some of the savings, and part of the reason I have many more chucks than I have lathes.
Reversed jaws or no, that D1-4 lets you leave work IN one chuck, set it aside to do something more time-critical, return to it later with no loss of accuracy.
Same again with a second 3-J. When blessed with a D1, don't "marry" it to one partner. Let it earn its promiscuous keep!
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
This could be a niche chuck for you
Perhaps a screw thread, saws for a Logan? 1 1/2 -8
Lathe Chuck "Buck" New 444 - tools - by owner - sale
think a new buck 4jaw is over a grand,.,.
Nope think you need a 2 1/2-8
Chuck Backplate Adapters - LittleMachineShop.com
Perhaps a screw thread, saws for a Logan? 1 1/2 -8
Lathe Chuck "Buck" New 444 - tools - by owner - sale
think a new buck 4jaw is over a grand,.,.
Nope think you need a 2 1/2-8
Chuck Backplate Adapters - LittleMachineShop.com
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
ONLY if OLD stock and/or in somewhere around 16 or 20 inches and up. Mebbe 12"?
For quite a while now, word has it they no longer make their own in the smaller sizes, sell imports, rather.
Basically, all the US, European, Japanese major-makers went over to power chucks long ago. CNC market needs GOOD ones, pays accordingly, uses them up, need rebuild or replacement.
No real market for manual ones. Small shop or hobbyist buys ONE, runs it for 20 years, next user does the same. Follow-on sale for the SECOND chuck can be 40 to 80 years out, by which time it can go to some other brand, anyway.
That's a starve-to-death biz plan.
Most of our old-line makers who did NOT go to CNC market target and power actuated did exactly that. Starved. Others were beaten to death by already-dominant power chuck makers who had a Helluva long head-start.
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
oh man. That looks super. I have to check to see if a 10 will fit. It's a Sheldon 11 1/4 22 between centers.
Thanks
R
Thanks
R
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
Don't get greedy. Ten inch will be tough to make effective use of on the diameter, and will also eat more out of that short 22" of long-axis daylight.
Main go-to usually needs to be between half and 2/3 the swing. Otherwise you barely move the jaws and the stick-out puts them at risk of tearing s**t up.
I've just shed an 800 mm off the Cazeneuve 360 (14", by US measure) because the jaws too soon hit the safety shield and/or the front of the cross slide. 700 mm going on it in its place (the two new SCA's)
Also big chucks are seldom built for safe use at higher RPM's.
Just look at the ratings the majors publish by body material and size.
On a 10" "trade", 12.5" actual 10EE, I have ONE special-case 8", "many" 6", also a five, four and even a 3". The six-inchers are the most practical of sizes, even on a 12.5" actual.
Even a "bull" barrel still in the white and for a large-ring Mauser magnum action ain't going to need no 10" chuck!
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Guessing a 8" chuck would be recommended for an 11 " lathe..
Much of that is the jaws extending out and as Monachist said the weight and RPM...
Sheldon is a very nice lathe ..think I cut my teeth on one.
Much of that is the jaws extending out and as Monachist said the weight and RPM...
Sheldon is a very nice lathe ..think I cut my teeth on one.
I just received my new Sanou 6" 4-jaw today for my SB Heavy 10. Machined the backing plate (provided) and mounted it. With a snug slip fit on the 65mm locating boss, it had about .0015 runout to the OD. The jaws were consistently quite snug in their sliding fits, a good workout cranking them in and out. Did a little stoning to free them up, could use some more. Ran an indicator over the OD jaw surfaces with the jaws unloaded (nothing clamped) and observed about .004 "reverse bell-mouth", which I would expect. The deburring of the jaw slots on the OD could have been better, otherwise a nicely made and finished chuck. Paid $156 for chuck, backing plate and shipping.
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Good chuck makes the lathe.. A 4 jaw can make zero with indicating the one place .. but a good chuck will run a part with least wobble so get the best you can afford / then take good care of it IMHO.,
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
5" and smaller only, here, as I had better ones for 6".
All were under $90, given I rolled the dice, ordered from offshore and waited, not from a US-based reseller who may not "really" hold onshore stocks, anyway, and will not until he has orders enough for a crate or pallet of 'em.
"Great" quality? Noo.. But what's the use of a sloppy old Cushman that "has been" great.. but no longer is after 40-70 years of use and abuse?
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
The smaller but best name might be the better choice for gun work..
Gator used to make a good/OK chuck.. a plane back is often the best priced but then you need a d-4 back plate.
I haven't bought a chuck for time so likely don't have the best advice.
Gator used to make a good/OK chuck.. a plane back is often the best priced but then you need a d-4 back plate.
I haven't bought a chuck for time so likely don't have the best advice.
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
cyanidekid
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2016
- Location
- Brooklyn NYC
Pre64, I do happen to have a D1-4 4jaw independent, and no spindle it goes on. its a new old stock SVA, made in England. it is by FAR the heaviest 6" 4jaw I've ever seen. jaws are 1" wide. really nice for bigger work within its range.
a completely different animal than the buck. this thing would not even bite on a 1/2" sq bar. looks like its built for about 3hp and up.
I really like it, and was going to make a new backplate for it, but would consider parting with it for the right price. have to look into the value, but I'm thinking 600$ might start to loosen up the fingers..
a completely different animal than the buck. this thing would not even bite on a 1/2" sq bar. looks like its built for about 3hp and up.
I really like it, and was going to make a new backplate for it, but would consider parting with it for the right price. have to look into the value, but I'm thinking 600$ might start to loosen up the fingers..