A2-5 vs D1-5 camlock

In short and obvious stuff aside what's better about A2-5 compared to D1-5 and what's worse ? I'm looking to buy a new lathe and I have a choice.

AlexO said:

In short and obvious stuff aside what's better about A2-5 compared to D1-5 and what's worse ? I'm looking to buy a new lathe and I have a choice.

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D is quick, A is slow

D was intended for tool room where you might be changing spindle tooling a dozen times a day

A was intended for production (read turret lathes) where you might change spindle tooling every six months - or never

A requires you to go find the right hex key wrench

D often uses the chuck wrench laying there

get the one with the larger hole
.

Can't comment on the A2-5, but my Nardini came with D1-5 and I have often wished it were something more common. It is quite uncommon when you see a nice clean used lathe chuck or faceplate or whatever for that piece to have D1-5 tooling. D1-6 is much more common.

metalmagpie

A clever dude can make all the D1-5 to D1-6 adapters he needs in the very lathe he proposes to use them on. Make an adapter for each item of spindle tooling and a couple extra. Use the tapped pin hole in the D1-6 chuck attachment screws.

I haven't scaled it out but I think by inserting an adapter between D1-5 spindle and a D1-6 chuck you'd increase the overhang by an inch, maybe less if you don't make it too big and clunky. You can make them out of any any ferrous material including A-36 hot roll but the preferred (and expensive) stuff would be cast iron. Stock size would be about 7 1/2 dia x 1 1/2 long but that's a WAG. draw it out before specing stock size.

You'd need a set of D1-5 cam lock pins for each adapter

Toolmex offers camlock pins on page 375 of their catalog found here:

http://www.lathe.com/toolmex/2011BisWorkRotaryCatalogRev.pdf

They won't be cheap.

There's nothing to keep you from making them of alloy steel yourself. Complete manufacturing data for D1-5 cam lock pins is available in USAS B-5.9 (1967), a hard-to-find-for free-standard possibly available through your local library via a inter-library lend. The full standard is available for about $70 from various standards publishers - venal bastards.

A2-5 spindle nose is a different deal. The chuck or spindle tooling item bolts to the spindle nose flange. If you require D1-X convenience in chuck changing you'll have to make an adapter. The camlocks are difficult to make as the cam feature is tricky to cut and they require a square driving recess. The manufacturing data is available in the standard cited above. .

Forrest Addy said:

A2-5 spindle nose is a different deal. The chuck or spindle tooling item bolts to the spindle nose flange. If you require D1-X convenience in chuck changing you'll have to make an adapter. The camlocks are difficult to make as the cam feature is tricky to cut and they require a square driving recess. The manufacturing data is available in the standard cited above. .

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I was thinking more or less on the same lines .

One could simply buy the camlocks as a spare part for some lathe. Making the nose however worries me since years ago I had one cracking on me due to ( possibly ?? ) very low temperature. It seems to me that the A2-5 keeps the chuck much closer to the front bearing than the equivalent camlock and then a clever adaptor might be in order.

AlexO said:

It seems to me that the A2-5 keeps the chuck much closer to the front bearing than the equivalent camlock and then a clever adaptor might be in order.

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A2 doesn't need the spindle pierced for the camlocks that grip the studs, so yeah, even with identical taper & flange (as they have, or course) there are savings in space and "probably" higher hard-limit strength advantage to the A2.

As to adaptors.. Cazeneuve uses a proprietary "counterpart" to the A2/D1 system. It has a longer, and MUCH "shallower" taper, but nose-art can be attached EITHER with bolts, A2 style, ELSE (never BOTH) with radially-arranged conical pinch screws of its own invention entirely, but of similar persuasion to the wedging action a D1 has when cammed-over.

One might be able to execute a similar trick on an A2 or an adapter plate for it, and not need the full-length of the D1 system's cam studs.

So long as.. one has "access" the threaded holes for the stud anchoring can, of course be used for back-mount capscrews instead of cam studs. Think "available" D1-3 or D1-4 nose-art, such as collet systems, mounted to a D1-5 or D1-6 plate, for example.

FWIW-not-much-dept. IF.... I had had a choice.. I'd have opted for the optional D1 nose on my HBX-360-BC anyway. More of the "wearing" or prangable parts are readily replaceable than those in Cazeneuve's system OR the A2 system - are.

Minor PITA, but as John cited, the D1 payback is reasonably fast, and VERY "repeatable" swapping vs same-accuracy, just-slower A-system.

I have an A1-5 spindle on my 14" lathe. I have not really found it to be that slow as long as I keep the proper SHCS in each chuck. I made a simple wooden sled for both of the chucks I have so that they are on center and it is easy to get the screws started. The sleds have a hole to store the proper size hex key on a short leash, and with a hex driver in a cordless drill motor the whole deal is pretty quick.

As much as I thought I would prefer a camlock I doubt I will ever bother to make an adapter.

Taking a closer look today one thing is clear A2-5 has tools closer to the front bearing.