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First post, new to me FAMCO 100 Vertical Mill

el bob

Plastic
Joined
May 21, 2012
Location
North Bay
Hello,

I registered last year but have not posted yet. I looked through the stickies to check for rules for the forum. I didn't see a FAMCO subforum so I'm hoping it's okay to post here in General.

I'm looking for advice on initial tooling purchases and initial maintenance checks for my new to me mill. For background, I took two machine shop classes in college and have used a couple different Bridgeport mills for simple aluminum and steel prototyping projects over the years at different workplaces. In one sentence, I am an engineer who likes to make parts. In terms of what cutting/support tools I have used on a vertical mill spindle before, I have used ends mills, drill bits, reamers (reamers were used on a drill press) and edge finders before - not including tool hodling or work holding. I have not used any indexable tooling on a mill though I would like to get there in the future so I can cut a flat top surface on wide footprint parts. Most of my work right now is general shop fabrication work with A36 plate, A500 square tube, MIG and TIG welding.

I also have an R8 spindle CNC mill but I'm not there yet (machine is fine, operator [me] needs work) but I figure it might be important to mention for context when I ask about tooling.

The FAMCO 100 came with an old vise the previous owner (helpful guy) told me was rough and not too good, but I thought it would be a good fit to help me get started with general rough steel fabrication support work (drill holes in plate, slotting holes in plate, drilling holes in square tube, facing square tubes end to length (dry cut saw sometimes leaves a wavy cut edge on the square tube)). It also came with one NMTB 30 collet holder. Marking says 30mm Universal Engineering on the holder.


............


Before I get too far, is this the right forum and sub section for a new guy to write his background and situation, and ask for advice? If not, could someone kindly point me in the right direction?

Thanks for reading.
 
You are in the right place. Famco is a good mill just not very common. I have only worked on a couple of them, I think they were more common in the mid west.
 
your like me, you make enough to live & eat and still buy toys as an engineer.... that said, start buying toys for the mill and see what works for you. surprisingly little will not work out.

get yourself a horizontal vertical rotary table, an indexer/dividing head. and a booring head and booring bar set.

these additions will allow you to make a lot of shapes that would other wise require a lathe or cnc.

and buy an angle plate

and buy/make a bunch of clamps. you can never have too much workholding stuff.
 
Thanks for the advice dsergison.

Continuing my first post --- I bought the mill about a month ago but only got to pick it up about two weeks ago. It rained on the machine moving day so we tarped it but some rain still got past. Local tow truck company brought out their forklift and lowered the machine on its pallet down to the ground and put it inside the garage. Two guys helped me wipe it completely dry with clean shop towels and we then turned up the space heater to dry out the garage overnight in case that helped with anything we could not reach. Before finishing that night I sprayed all exposed bare metal surfaces with WD40 (I did not know to do this to my CNC mill when I got it (new) and it flash rusted exposed bare metal surfaces a little less than a year later during its first Winter to Spring transition time).

The previous owner had told me repeatedly to make sure I properly grease and oil the machine. He filled up the oil cups and freshly greased the grease fitting points before I picked up the machine. I have since ordered and received the machine's factory service manual from ozarkwoodworker and it says what kinds of lubricants to use. The brands they specify may not be around anymore so I probably will have to ask about what to buy that's available today.

Before I could use the machine, I had to deal with two issues. One was that the extra strength machine pallet the seller loaded it on was too narrow for my pallet jack (just by 1/2"). So first I had to very carefully support the machine independently of the pallet with steel stands, adjust and reinforce the wood pallet and lower the machine back on to the pallet. I'm planning to leave the machine on the pallet for a little while until I decide on a more permanent place to put it. Right now I have it sitting in the open center space of the shop where it's easy to work on it.

The second issue was that the machine was 3 phase and I have regular US residential split phase 240VAC (measured it last Sunday at 245VAC line 1 to line 2). I have 240V machines but they are all capable of running off single phase. I was going to buy a rotary phase converter, but I did some research (including Google searches on practicalmachinist) and decided on a VFD. I spent a year or more working on the electric drivetrain for an electric car a couple years back and thought a VFD would fall into familiar territory. More or less, it did.

I decided (somewhat hurriedly) on a Hitachi WJ200-015SF even though the FAMCO 100 motor nameplate says its rated for 1HP. The 1.5kW VFD was not much more expensive than the .75kW (1HP capable) VFD and I thought maybe having the extra power capacity could allow the VFD to have a second use some time down the line. The VFD arrived last Friday and I started setting it up over the weekend. I knew I would probably want to change how I have it physically mounted in the future, so I kept it simple and just followed Hitachi's electrical rules/requirements. I did the first power up two nights ago and it successfully completed Hitachi's power-up test. I set the thermal current limit to match the 1HP motor's rated 4.2Amp instead of the 2HP capable VFD's default 8amp setting, and set the other four instructed parameters accordingly.

Last night I got to put a tool on the spindle for the first time. The spindle rotated in reverse (I didn't notice it two nights ago), so I swapped two phases and got it sorted. The only tooling I had ordered in advance was a taper adapter to adapt the NMTB 30 on the machine to JT3 to fit a drill chuck I already had. Luckily I didn't have any issues (besides the drill chuck was stuck to the R8 to JT3 adapter) and I was happy to see a drill bit spinning straight. I hit STOP, switched into back gear, hit RUN, and drilled the first hole into a scrap piece of 2x2x11ga square tube. May not seem like much, but getting to that point (machine, pallet, 3 phase power, drill tooling) was a big deal for me. I used to have access to these sorts of machines and got accustomed to it. After not having ready access for a couple years, it became important.


The first question I wanted to ask when I started this thread was about end mill tooling, both cutters and holders. I then found a thread where someone asked a similar question. Is this advice posted in that thread basically what I need to know pretty much?

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/newbie-needs-help-mill-tooling-202373/#post1335942

The mill's previous owner told me I could probably get away with, for a while, inexpensive import tooling on eBay while, he predicted, I crash and burn some tooling during the learning curve. I'm not planning on breaking anything, but from what more experienced people have told me, it's coming to me whether I like it or not and I should budget for it. The NMTB 30 to JT3 taper adapter I used was an import off eBay.

Thanks for reading. Advice is appreciated. I see a set of of used SPI 3/4 (a size I use) and 1in end mill holders on eBay. It's a traditional auction format so I'll have to wait and see. Initial sizes I would want to have are 1/2" and 3/4".
 
Is your vfd set so the machine controls are wired into the vfd low voltage controls? I understand, from this site, that they do not like having the load switched downstream by old school switches. Or maybe for know you are just using the switches on the vfd box. I like to install an extra stop switch or two on opposite ends of big machines. Down low where a knee can turn them off can also be handy.
Bill D.
 
So buy all the 30 taper end mill holders in fractional sizes you can find cheap and an er32 or similar collet system if you can to hold weird stuff.

I think 1/8 1/4 3/8 1/2 3/4 to be more useful, 1" pushing it a little. at least one ER collet set or similar to hold in-between size reamers, taps etc..


I bought my mill 12 years ago... seems like time flies and i can blow $$$ on tools almost as fast as i can make it. Www.sergisonmachine.net
 
Bill D, right now the VFD is set up with the bare minimum required connections. This was Hitachi's recommendation for the first power up test and also made sense for me on a practical level to get started. You are correct, the VFD would absolutely not like it if I severed or interrupted (via switch) its connection to the spindle motor windings. The machine's factory Reverse Off Forward spindle motor switch is still installed and in line (for now), but is set to the FWD position and is under no circumstances being touched. Since the power up test succeeded, I can now think about improvements I would like to make, like the one you mentioned about rewiring the factory spindle motor switch so its routed to the VFD's low voltage control inputs and the VFD motor outputs are re-run so that there is nothing in-between them and the motor phase leads. There are some things that could go in-between the two for good reason (i.e. noise filter, output side AC reactor), but I'm hoping I won't need to add them. Thanks for the tip on extra stop switches, that sounds like a good idea.

Dsergison I clicked on the link and browsed your web site. Those are some cool and serious machines you have!

I'm waiting to see how the SPI end mill holder auction goes (ends Friday night). It seems like 90% of what's on eBay for NMTB 30 is new import tools, not so much used name brand tooling (at least for end mill holders). I have only been looking for a week or two though. I'll have to keep an eye on it.

I took a closer look at the vise that came with the mill last night. It looks like it might be missing a replaceable vise jaw on the side closer to the operator.

The spindle variable speed transmission sure makes a fair bit of noise. The previous owner and a machinist friend of mine both said it's par for the course with this type of machine though and it didn't mean it was about to run into trouble.

I will try and upload some pictures this weekend. The machine looked a lot better in the For Sale advertisement then it did when I went to look at it. That was a bit disappointing. It had a bad repaint job done some time ago and the paint is flaking and bubbling (not sure what to call it, it's just not smooth with the rest of the neighboring surfaces) in some places.
 
I spent most of last night eBay and Google searching for used NMTB30 tooling. Learned a few things about who some of the sellers are, who is close, who is across the country, etc. The SPI/Lyndex auctions have attracted attention and begun to get bid up. It looks like used name brand NMTB30 eBay tooling is going to be a patience game. Luckily I don't need the tooling this second. Just have the hole drilling capability is great for now.

Can I ask about recommended maintenance for the machine? I have the factory manual for the machine and have read its maintenance sections. I'm not sure they anticipated the machine being used by who knows how many owners and for a few decades later though. Any tips for what to pay extra special attention on this type of well used (I'm guessing) machine?

One of the things I noticed when I first checked it out in person was that the handwheels for moving the table left and right had half a turn (180degree) of slop in them. Again, previous owner and my machinist friend said it was not a big deal, that could be adjusted out.

I would eventually like to clean the machine up a bit. From the research I did a couple weekends ago, the best repaint jobs come from tearing down the mill into its major parts, sanding each individually, body filling each part, resanding, painting, and assembling the finished parts back together again. That seemed intimidating at first, but after getting more familiar with the machine, does not seem as terrible now. My primary concern would be needing to replace parts that do not survive disassembly and not being able to source them. That's probably going to keep me away from a repaint for a while.
 
Hi lazz, cool to see another Famco 100! Is that an aftermarket replacement motor? One thing I was worried about with my machine is that it still has the custom frame factory spindle motor and I was a bit spooked about running it with a VFD. I'm glad to see someone adapted what looks like an off the shelf motor to it. Hopefully I won't ever have to ask you how they did it! :)

Also, I noticed your machine has a very different looking table power feed box. I don't know if yours is older or newer, but the power feed box looks quite different on my mine. The power feed box on my machine looks just like the picture in the ozarkwoodworker Famco 100 manual.

I actually can't run my power feed box right now because its three phase and I only bought one VFD to start out. I would eventually have to buy another VFD (3 phase power feed motor is 1/4HP rated) to run it, but I wanted to make sure the basics of the machine worked well enough before investing more in it. The previous owner did do a live demo of the power feed working at his shop on native three phase though so I know it works.

Good luck with the derusting efforts. Cutter's vise and a few other derusting projects I have seen online (thinking of forhire on WW) have shown it can really do good work. Are you doing the same thing with the chemicals (I can't remember off the top of my head), sacrificial parts and a battery charger?
 
Yes to the after market motor. I never noticed the power feed difference till you mentioned it. I will have to look into that. And yes to the electrolysis rust removal.

After and before a night in the soup.
P6070830.jpgP6070829.jpg
 
Trying to post the first pictures...


Machine as I bought it
FAMCO%2520100%2520at%2520previous%2520owners%2520shop.jpg


Machine in the garage with VFD and drill chuck + taper adapter installed.
IMG_5753.JPG


I have other photos to post but that took a lot longer than I expected ... my mistake for trying to do it in a new way.
 
The machine came with this collet chuck marked Z-30NMM UNIVERSAL ENG CO. The only collet it came with is the one in the picture.

I am looking to get a collet set. Can I buy a set of collets to fit this collet chuck? If so, would that be better than buying a new 13 or 17pc collet set (chuck included) import set on eBay?

IMG_5722.JPG


IMG_5724.JPG


IMG_5725.JPG


IMG_5727.JPG
 
Maybe I'm misinformed, but I was thinking that a used name brand collet chuck might be better than a new eBay import? Buying tooling for a mill is new to me so I don't really know. I thought the collets themselves were the wear items and the collet chuck might be a good piece? I know it doesn't look like much from the outside but I've been wrong about the condition of tools based on outside appearance before. I was hoping someone might recognize the make/model of the tool and say whether or not it's a good one, and if so, whether or not collets can be bought for it.

I was looking at that set on eBay over the past weekend and it motivated me to post this thread. I wanted to ask about the chuck that came with the machine and try to make a more informed decision.

I'm used to the cheap import tools causing a fair bit of trouble in other areas of shop work that I have more time in (welding and fabrication). I have not been on the forum long enough to know if the eBay collet chuck sets have a decent reputation or not. Are they generally regarded as good enough for beginner work?
 
I measured the T-Slots on the mill table last night.

T Slots are about 0.680in (+/-0.002in) at the top. On the bottom, the front most and rear most T Slots are 1 3/16in wide, and the middle slot is between 1 1/8 and 1 3/16in wide. All I had were calipers and a machinist' rule so I could not be super precise on the bottom number but I'm confident in it.

I looked at clamp and step block sets and these measurements seemed to fall in between two sizes. It seemed almost just big enough to fit a 5/8-11 thread, 11/16 top slot width (this doesn't fit) and 1 1/8in bottom slot width. I settled and ordered a 1/2-13 thread, 5/8 top slot and 1in bottom slot set. Should be here next week.

I searched Google for measurements on the FAMCO 100 T-Slot size and came up empty so maybe this information will help someone else.
 








 
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