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  1. #1
    woodbuthcer is offline Plastic
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    Default aloris/ dorian vs. knockoffs

    I just purchased a new lathe with a no name quick change tool post. One of my lathes has an Aloris CA and the other a Dorian which is too small for this new lathe. I wanted to outfit it with something that would use all the CA toolholders I have. Is a good used Aloris toolpost better than a new Chinese one or is it really worth the bucks to buy a new Aloris?

  2. #2
    PixMan's Avatar
    PixMan is offline Diamond
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    You could split the difference and buy a Dorian CA. I have one and have been buying the cheap Chinese toolholders for http://www.tools4cheap.net and find they're working just fine. I don't know what the Chinese toolholder itself would be like, but the holders fit the Dorian correctly and tighten right up.

    Ebay could be your friend here.

  3. #3
    stuball48 is offline Stainless
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    You could buy a KDK - that would give you one of each - then you could do your own comparison and report to the forum which one is best for the work you do.

  4. #4
    Pat G is offline Cast Iron
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    The only difference I've noticed is returning to zero if you are using the carriage to drill, with an MT taper attachment for instance. The Phase II won't return dead on always needs to be checked.

    Otherwise I like the phase II

  5. #5
    Kallam is offline Cast Iron
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    Aloris uses a sliding gib to lock the tool holder . The new Dorains switched to the piston type lock. I think the sliding gib is best.
    Last edited by Kallam; 08-17-2009 at 01:28 AM.

  6. #6
    PixMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallam View Post
    Aloris uses a sliding gib to lock the tool holder . The new Dorains switched to the piston type lock. I think the sliding gib is best.
    Dorian has many different models now. Some are piston, most are sliding wedge. If their website didn't suck so badly you could probably see this.

  7. #7
    Ray Behner's Avatar
    Ray Behner is online now Titanium
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    Ive got an Aloris on my 20 x 80 American that is very repeatable, but I really like the Dorian on my Sheldon lathe. It's a QITP 30 so it holds 4 tools and indexes every 15 deg. Plus it's very repeatable. Several on this site have said they would never buy a Dorian because of what they did to Aloris, but they never said what happened. Anyone know?

    Ray

  8. #8
    PixMan's Avatar
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    I'd like to know what happened there too. I don't like to give money to worms. I had done some searching on Google but failed to find anything.

  9. #9
    W_Higgins's Avatar
    W_Higgins is offline Hot Rolled
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    I just bought a piston-type Yuasa CA, as I was searching for an Aloris but got tired of all the ones on which I bid going through the roof. Not wild about the piston design, but I have liked other Yuasa products I've used in the past, and at least for less money than a no-name import my new-to-me lathe won't be dead in the water anymore.

    I, too, would like to hear this rumored Dorian story that has been hinted at here in the past. I almost wound up with one if their stylish red knobbed tool posts, but wouldn't be happy if after the fact I had to use something made by an unscrupulous company.

  10. #10
    flutedchamber is offline Hot Rolled
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    Does anyone have any experience with the tool holders made by Matthews Precision that are being sold on Fleabay?

    10 year guarantee they state. I looked up Matthews Precision online but could find no company going by that name.

  11. #11
    flutedchamber is offline Hot Rolled
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    The story that I heard on the Aloris/Dorian problem is that some people who worked for Aloris copied the design then changed it just enough to get a patent.

    That is the short story, as told to me by the guy from the company that I buy my machinery from. The long story is a lot longer than that.

    While what the workers did was "legal" it is still theft in my eyes.

  12. #12
    Ray Behner's Avatar
    Ray Behner is online now Titanium
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutedchamber View Post
    The story that I heard on the Aloris/Dorian problem is that some people who worked for Aloris copied the design then changed it just enough to get a patent.

    That is the short story, as told to me by the guy from the company that I buy my machinery from. The long story is a lot longer than that.

    While what the workers did was "legal" it is still theft in my eyes.
    Isn't that what Bardons and Oliver did to Warner and Swasey? Might be wrong, correct me if I am.

    Ray

    By the way, that's exactly what Milwaukee did to my patent on a hole cutter. Same concept except add on a couple teeth. Easy to do, once you've seen it done.
    Last edited by Ray Behner; 08-17-2009 at 04:10 PM. Reason: added stuff

  13. #13
    btm
    btm is online now Cast Iron
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    FLuted Chamber,

    The company you want to contact is Quality Machine Tools. They sell a line of equipment called Precision Matthews. It is the same company selling on Ebay. The owner is Matt Nadeja. He's a good guy to deal with and stands behind the tools he sells.
    I've bought some regular straight BXA and CXA holders from him and they worked well. They're not as hard as the Aloris or Dorian, but for the price, I can't complain. The fit / finish on the holders that I bought was very good. I don't own an imported tool post, so I can't comment on them.

    btm

  14. #14
    Orrin's Avatar
    Orrin is offline Hot Rolled
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    As an HSM I'm satisfied with my Phase II wedge-type tool posts. The tool holders often need a slight bit of tune-up; but, for the price I'm not complaining.

    I've heard complaints about the set screws being soft; but, they've never been an issue with me.

    At the time I was buying, Travers had the best price. It has been a few years, now, and I've not done any comparisons in the meantime. You might want to check around for sales.

    Orrin

  15. #15
    flutedchamber is offline Hot Rolled
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    Thanks for the info BTM.

    I'm looking for a knurl toolholder for my CA series Dorian. I can't see spending almost $150 for something that I will use maybe three times a year. Used units are hard to find in the CA size.

    Again, thank you for the tip. It's a very nice website.

  16. #16
    btm
    btm is online now Cast Iron
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    Fluted Chamber,

    I've noticed on the imported knurl tools, that the knurls are usually junk. The toolholder is probably fine, but you'll want to throw out the cheap knurls and purchase a decent USA made set of knurls from MSC or any other industrial supplier.
    Good knurls aren't cheap, but they make a world of difference in the quality of knurling that you'll get on your finished part.

    I don't know what the knurls are like from Quality Machine Tools. I'm just basing the above info on other imported knurlers that I've seen.

    btm

  17. #17
    Langanobob is offline Cast Iron
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    The story that I heard on the Aloris/Dorian problem is that some people who worked for Aloris copied the design then changed it just enough to get a patent.
    Hell, isn't that what ALL the Asian clone manufacturers are doing to KDK, Dorian and Aloris. Except I don't think they bother with patents they just compete with cheap prices. It's completely beyond me how people working in a manufacturing industry that's being gutted by imported products actually buy imports themselves

    If someone doesn't want to spend the money on new USA tooling, with some patience you can find reasonable prices on used tools.

  18. #18
    IAMATT's Avatar
    IAMATT is offline Stainless
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    We have a couple of doloris quick change tool posts. No problem except sometimes the stud loosens with the top nut. I have bought some chinese tooling and then it hit me. I can buy all the chinese tooling for alot less and have marginal results and why am I making American parts on chinese tooling. If we all accept lower quality tools then our standards will suffer. I try like hell to steer clear of chinese tooling and knockoffs when I can. I even feel guilt for wearing a pair of chinese levis pants

  19. #19
    flutedchamber is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langanobob View Post
    Hell, isn't that what ALL the Asian clone manufacturers are doing to KDK, Dorian and Aloris. Except I don't think they bother with patents they just compete with cheap prices. It's completely beyond me how people working in a manufacturing industry that's being gutted by imported products actually buy imports themselves

    If someone doesn't want to spend the money on new USA tooling, with some patience you can find reasonable prices on used tools.
    That is very true...most of the Asian clone is not bothered by patent infringement. BUT...when a fellow American steals from you it hits a lot closer to home and raises MY ire a whole lot more than some company 10,000 miles away.

  20. #20
    Billiam is offline Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langanobob View Post
    Hell, isn't that what ALL the Asian clone manufacturers are doing to KDK, Dorian and Aloris.
    Except the patents have long expired in those cases.

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