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Any solder experts out there?: Uses of 40-60 Tin Lead solder

SAG 180

SAG 180

Titanium
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Location
Cairns, Qld, Australia
I bought a batch of tin lead solder while not paying particular attention to it's composition: It's 40/60 tin lead solder instead of the usual 60/40 tin lead electronics solder. It's also known as 40EN alloy which is used for "Hand soldering radio, telephone and electrical equipment, batteries" . It also melts about 50 deg C or 122 deg F higher than 60/40 solder.

Has anyone on the forum experience with various tin lead solder alloys and their uses?. Worst case scenario is that I can use this in place of 30/70 automotive panel beater's solder for lead filling panels and general brass soldering.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/315929.pdf
 
Well you will have to put more heat into it so if you were installing polystyrene caps or something it might melt them. If it is flux core electronics solder that is all I would use it for.
 
40/60 was used as a tempering bath somewhere I worked, definately heat treatment, think it was press tools or somthing
Mark
 
When I made gyros for a living, we had the whole range of such solders. When we installed a number of components in close proximity, we soldered the first with the highest melting solder and worked down through the lower ones to avoid loosening the already installed pieces. You probably use yours in the normal manner, just with a little more heat.

Bill
 
40/60 solder could be used for electrical work but not for printed circuits because of the higher heat required. It's better suited for radiator repair, old school auto body filling, copper roofs, sheet metal joining, etc.
 
One big difference between the two is that 60/40 is much closer to being eutectic which means going from liquid to solid directly as apposed to 40/60 that has a "mushy" zone where it changes gradually from a liquid to a solid. This may not seem like much, but it is easier to get cold solder joints with the 40/60.

Tom
 
From memory I thought the tin content high for plumbers wiping solder - that's 28 / 72 0r 30 / 70 so I dug.

As taken from Wikipedia ;- Sn40, UNS L54915. For soldering of brass and car radiators.[26] For bulk soldering, and where wider melting point range is desired. For joining cables. For wiping and joining lead pipes. For repairs of radiators and electrical systems.[23] 40 / 60


Ref ;- Solder - Wikipedia


P.S. - There are rather a lot of solder compositions ;)
 
The three common lead/tin solders 40/60, 50/50 and 60/40 are rather similar. In general the solder flows faster when the melting range is narrow. The 40/60 has a wider melting range and as such it is better when filling larger gaps and when used for building up a thicker layer, for example when filling dents. In the past soft solder was a common body filler in car repairs. 40/60 works for that, though 30/70 is even better.
 
But it will probably allow a longer period of time for smoothing it and forming it to the work. Think auto body repairs.



TDegenhart said:
One big difference between the two is that 60/40 is much closer to being eutectic which means going from liquid to solid directly as apposed to 40/60 that has a "mushy" zone where it changes gradually from a liquid to a solid. This may not seem like much, but it is easier to get cold solder joints with the 40/60.

Tom
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for all the replies, it's certainly food for thought, I hadn't considered the extended plastic zone time as it solidifies. I'll run a few experiments maybe assemble a small printed circuit board that I make and see how it handles the extra heat. It's in wire form with a rosin core and I bought about 16 lbs of the stuff from a major supplier that runs one of those computer pricing algorithms that varies the prices up and down depending on demand for items. They mustn't have sold any lately as a 1 lb roll was down to $2.18 and the day after my purchase it jumped to $22.18.
 
SAG 180 said:
Thanks for all the replies, it's certainly food for thought, I hadn't considered the extended plastic zone time as it solidifies. I'll run a few experiments maybe assemble a small printed circuit board that I make and see how it handles the extra heat. It's in wire form with a rosin core and I bought about 16 lbs of the stuff from a major supplier that runs one of those computer pricing algorithms that varies the prices up and down depending on demand for items. They mustn't have sold any lately as a 1 lb roll was down to $2.18 and the day after my purchase it jumped to $22.18.
Click to expand...

Rosin core wire solder is primarily for electrical and electronics Plumbing and other such uses are usually supplied in bar form. Its been a while since I bought any, but to my knowledge, the industry only uses 60/40 or 63/37 (eutectic).

Tom
 
If you have small parts, then a little addition of silver (Sn60Pb37Ag3 if I remember correctly) makes wonders with solderability and the price is not much higher.
 
TDegenhart said:
Rosin core wire solder is primarily for electrical and electronics Plumbing and other such uses are usually supplied in bar form. Its been a while since I bought any, but to my knowledge, the industry only uses 60/40 or 63/37 (eutectic).

Tom
Click to expand...

That's what forced this reconsidering of accepted knowledge about solder: here's a rosin flux cored solder wire obviously made for electronics/electrical rather than in bar form for car bodies and brass. Electronics solders have been redefined mainly in lead free forms with some electronics solders having up to five metals alloyed together. It seems the main difference for 40/60 solder is the higher melting point and how that will affect the parts being soldered. Apart from the increased melting point everything else seems to be better than the common lead free electronic solders tin, silver copper alloys.
 
not sure about rosin core, but i've had aging acid-core solder turn to shit . i bought a 5 lb spool for $5 at a flea
market . it was all crumbly and oxidized .... wouldn't flow , and made a mess of my plumbing work. adding additional flux
helped a little . i believe the acid flux reacted with the alloy itself.

no other explanation.
 
tnmgcarbide said:
not sure about rosin core, but i've had aging acid-core solder turn to shit . i bought a 5 lb spool for $5 at a flea
market . it was all crumbly and oxidized .... wouldn't flow , and made a mess of my plumbing work. adding additional flux
helped a little . i believe the acid flux reacted with the alloy itself.

no other explanation.
Click to expand...

All the paste solders do exactly that, the flux reacts with the solder and degrades it. Storing in the fridge helps but is not a solution, just buys extra time. Rosin core is fairly inert , it seems to last a fair while.
 
Do you mean 40-60 or 60-40 solder?.

SOGLAD said:
I KNOW this was a very old post and question ~ but the answers remain true!

60/40 Solder (with and without rosin core) is probably your WORST choice for electronics applications ~ even if it is KESTER. Use it and expect solder blobs and very poor (cold) connections! This is true even with advanced heat and even adding a dab of "KESTER Liquid Flud" with a q-tip!

Do yourself a HUGE favor and postpone your electronics soldering until you have the proper solder for the job! ASSURE a shiny and full coat soldering on every job... especially on PC boards or when joining wires.

A TIP I know you WILL appreciate later... Get a 1 foot length of SOLDER and wrap it ALL just above the AC connector, on the AC Cord. Be sure it's snug so it will *never* touch the AC spades or blades. Now you will *always* have a emergency supply if solder ~ if you can't find your solder roll"! A very hand tip from my first Electronics Shop teacher I never forgot and a tip that saved my feathers many times since.


Enjoy!
SOGLAD
WA6IGJ
Click to expand...
 
SOGLAD said:
WHOOPS!
I tried to REVISE my post but I am unable to do so... guess it's written in stone?
Click to expand...


You should be able to go to an icon in the bottom of YOUR recent post that says edit. This will open your post to be able to edit, there is a limited amount of time to do this, something like 24 or 48 hrs, not sure exactly.
 
I do a fair bit of PCB repair at times, more than a few of them seam to be some kinda higher melting point lead free solder and its a real bitch to desolder cleanly and replace parts compared to typical 60/40 leaded solders.
 
adama said:
I do a fair bit of PCB repair at times, more than a few of them seam to be some kinda higher melting point lead free solder and its a real bitch to desolder cleanly and replace parts compared to typical 60/40 leaded solders.
Click to expand...

The few lead free solders I tried made it harder to get a good join and I wonder how many modern devices fail as a result of lead free solder. For the small amount of repairs I do these days I just run some 60-40 tin lead onto the components to make it flow well and detach easily and then resolder with 60-40 especially the surface mount stuff as it's not worth the hassle of lead free.
 
^ Yeah, im use to the dilution with leaded solder trick, normally works great, but not with this shit! Literally seams like its got a higher melting point. Lots of the lead free solders, blob some leaded on there and it damn near can be sucked off with a straw, this shit im like 70 degrees hotter on the iron and its barely attracted to nice solder wick.

I have seen a lot of issues with non leaded solders, can't complain lead free solder makes me money! But its more than fair to say its cost my customers big time. Im far from sold on the notion that leaded solders in industrial electronics is a major health risk. Compared to the chemicals a lot of what i encounter use, leads pretty tame. Equally the environmental impact of the shorter product life and its replacment is far from environmentally neutral too.
 
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