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Anyone Scrap Out A Welder Before?

Machinery_E

Titanium
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Location
Ohio, USA
Hey All-I've been buying several welders, looking to get some good ones for the shop. I'm curious as to how much copper is inside them. Say I buy one and its a dud-like, if I can get it at scrap price, it won't be too bad. But the question is, what is scrap price? I'm talking industrial 3 phase welders, 300-400 amp...from the 60' and 70's. Mainly transformer type.

Thanks for any input!

Eric
 
Interesting topic.

My experiance.

Local salvage operation had several welders. I tried buying them. No way to test. How much. "well I get $2lb for copper" Ok, so how much then. He weighed the entire machine, including steel case etc and multiplied by 2. Of course only a full would pay that. I remarked that the entire machine was not copper. But he wouldnt budge.

I have scraped welders. They paid going rate for mixed steel only.
 
Copper or Aluminum Windings?

Be careful when buying welders to scrap. If they are copper, fine but I understand that some of them use aluminum transformer windings nowadays.

I have a Miller Synrcrowave 200 and a Lincoln SP 175 plus Mig and I couldn't tell you whether they have copper or aluminum windings.
 
Eric;

I've scrapped a number of welders. You may yield up to 75# of #1 from a good one.

The best way to do this is pull the transformers off then put them in a pile. Pile wood over them and burn them. The smoke like the dickens until they get hot. This will take about 10-15 minutes. Let them burn till they get real hot. You must get the core real hot. Most important step. Once hot, dip the transformers in water and they will shine like a new penny. Take a 2 lb. cross pein hammer and break the welds. Unwind the wire and bingo!

Keep in mind if you don't get the varnish off, you drop one grade. #1 wire with varnish becomes #2 and so on.

Hope all went well loading today in Shreve!

Craig Donges
 
FWIW;

I have never burnt copper in my life. In the previous post, I was describing how some people told me it was done. I would never violate any laws. Especially if it involved harming our planet.

Remeber, burning copper in open fires is a crime!

Craig Donges
 
Thanks guys! Looks like Craig has given me a good idea of what I'm lookin for!

Craig, Load out went well! Made it back safe so that's a blessing too!

Eric
 
There is another way of looking at the problem. Most welders have a good cooling fan that can be usefull in other applications. The sheet metal housing can be used for machine guards and most any other fabrication projects involving light sheet...some with louvers or clean vents already in. The real question would be...what else can you use that transformer for? Monster spot welder? There must be something. I've got a big old single phase AC machine awaiting some fate.
 
Concerning re-use of parts some of the single to three phase converter drawings suggest using a welder transformer to get the high voltage stepped up output. I guess its possible to connect them as an auto-transformer.

Clive
 
Craig: What law prohibits burning copper in an open fire? Federal, Ohio, or local. I Did not know it was against the law.
John Burchett
in Byng OK
 
Craig: What law prohibits burning copper in an open fire? Federal, Ohio, or local. I Did not know it was against the law.
John Burchett
in Byng OK

I have a feeling you can burn all the copper you want -- it's burning off the plastic insulation that you'll get in hot water for.
 
A friend of mine is an EPA air quality control guy. First fine for burning insulation off is 10,000.00 , second offense is 250,000.00. I don't know if they can put you in the can as well, probably if a judge decides you need it. He doesn't know of any cases around these parts but certain area's of the country they have been after wire burners.

Some scrap yards will no longer take wire that has had the insulation burnt off and it is coming in the future that they will have to turn you in if you bring in burnt off wire. All the local scrap yards have refused burnt off aluminum wire for years. It only took them getting burnt on that one time to never accept that again.

I have acouple places that I take wire that pay about 10 cents a pound less than #1 as they have access to a shredder so anything less than about 1/2 in size goes there and everything else I run thru a home made wire stripper. One great thing about the shredders is that nothing goes to waste, even the insulation is recycled into new insulation or plastics.

The way I see it a person would have to be worse than an idiot to burn off wire insulation and they deserve everything that is coming to them.

tim
 
transformer use out of welder

There is another way of looking at the problem. Most welders have a good cooling fan that can be usefull in other applications. The sheet metal housing can be used for machine guards and most any other fabrication projects involving light sheet...some with louvers or clean vents already in. The real question would be...what else can you use that transformer for? Monster spot welder? There must be something. I've got a big old single phase AC machine awaiting some fate.

I have used the transformers for a buck/boost application.
I have a GE Induction Voltage Regulator that i wanted to raise the ouput voltage so i hooked up thhe three secondarys
in series with the proper phasing.
regular output 47 volts. welder out put 25 volts. result: total output buck seting 22 volts neutral seting 0 volts boost setting 72volts.
welder used is a Hobart RC-600. AC/DC 600 amp welder
I would like to find a internal wiring diagram.
 

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I have read that the Lincoln tombstone buzzbox welder has used aluminum for the main transformer since the early 1970's until today. Probably similar for all other makes and models.
Bil lD
 
In some jurisdictions ,possession of burnt wiring is a crime ........anyhoo ,back to welders.....a surprising number have ally windings ......and just because they look coppery brown ,it can be overheated varnish.........Even the big Lincoln SA motor generator sets weighing 3/4 ton ,have most of the heavy welder windings are ally(DC armature is copper wound,but hard to get out )......the three phase windings are copper ,tho ,and saturated with epoxy......Ive found very early extra large MIGs ,like 600A,have cooper throughout..............Now ,spot welders..Christmas in July......much solid copper ,even a tiddler will scrap at $500 for copper......more with the arms and stuff......Even better...flash butt welders...last one went 4 ton of copper ,and was completely covered in steel spatter looking like rust....I got 4 ton of solid copper for $10.,little bit of work cleaning the spatter off with a air chisel.
 
In some jurisdictions ,possession of burnt wiring is a crime ........anyhoo ,back to welders.....a surprising number have ally windings ......and just because they look coppery brown ,it can be overheated varnish.........Even the big Lincoln SA motor generator sets weighing 3/4 ton ,have most of the heavy welder windings are ally(DC armature is copper wound,but hard to get out )......the three phase windings are copper ,tho ,and saturated with epoxy......Ive found very early extra large MIGs ,like 600A,have cooper throughout..............Now ,spot welders..Christmas in July......much solid copper ,even a tiddler will scrap at $500 for copper......more with the arms and stuff......Even better...flash butt welders...last one went 4 ton of copper ,and was completely covered in steel spatter looking like rust....I got 4 ton of solid copper for $10.,little bit of work cleaning the spatter off with a air chisel.

This, in an unfortunate way. I used to take a lot of transformers apart for the copper, until I ran across a few with ally windings. I cant get a good price for coated ally, so I stopped bothering. Got me some time back though, so not all bad I suppose. :)
 
The manual spot welders the auto factories used to use are good......they are always covered in steel spatter and rust,which hide the value from the uninformed.Any kind of spot,seam,or resistance welder is going to be heavy copper.I always give the heavy copper as much of a clean as I can reasonably do ,and this upgrades it to top price.......One time I got tons of HT conductor ,sheathed in mica ,and the individual wires wrapped (as I found out) in asbestos yarn.The mica "leaves" were often as big as the palm of your hand.
 
The manual spot welders the auto factories used to use are good......they are always covered in steel spatter and rust,which hide the value from the uninformed.Any kind of spot,seam,or resistance welder is going to be heavy copper.I always give the heavy copper as much of a clean as I can reasonably do ,and this upgrades it to top price.......One time I got tons of HT conductor ,sheathed in mica ,and the individual wires wrapped (as I found out) in asbestos yarn.The mica "leaves" were often as big as the palm of your hand.


If the spot welders are single phase they can be worth more as a welder than scrap. Manual welders are fairly easy to convert to pnumatic closer with timers.. I've done seven conversions they are plenty reliable.

General rule is that a manufactured good is always worth more as the good than it is as scrap. Unless it's damaged or very obsolete.

In the case of spot welders anything under 30kva single phase that works is somewhat valuable. The arms and mounts are often worth decent money.
If anyone has some arms tips or mounts they want to scrap I'll pay to ship them because I still use spot welders.
 
A while back I scrapped some as new spots I got from a big factory.....ideal size,no timers ,etc.....one had dozens of the bent and straight work contact pieces ......guy wanted the all the long 2" diameter arms ,and all the contact pieces ....I weighed them ,multiplied by current copper price,and told him the total,quite a tidy sum......Nooooo.he says ,Im not paying that,Ill make you an offer......What an idiot.
 
Craig: What law prohibits burning copper in an open fire? Federal, Ohio, or local. I Did not know it was against the law.
John Burchett
in Byng OK
In Carrollton, Georgia at a newish, rule following, scrap yard, they won’t buy burned copper. Possibly because there’s a big wire and cable company here and the potential for theft.
Regards, Noell
 
I have read that the Lincoln tombstone buzzbox welder has used aluminum for the main transformer since the early 1970's until today. Probably similar for all other makes and models.
Bil lD
True I think. The best information I’ve read is that all AC-225’s are aluminum windings. Older AC-180’s might be copper.
I watched a video “Stick Welder Scrap Out” on an old Forney C-6BT with different plug holes for power Change that had aluminum windings. The guess was that it was from the 60’s.
Regards, Noell
 








 
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