[Apologies if this is the wrong forum. Mods: please delete if so.]

Short version: I bought an Emco V13 lathe in august, it was transported by "Road Runner Transportation Services" who as part of their delivery service ran a forklift into it, basically totaling it. They've dragged things out for months. Their latest offer is that they will pay me $140. Given that the lathe cost $2600 and shipping was around $700 this is disgusting.

There's no abiguity: they destroyed a good quality piece of equipment and are too dishonest to do the right thing. I'm going to have to sue them to straighten this out, which is a big waste of time.

I'd recommend avoiding them at all cost.

On that note: what freight companies do people recommend? I'll be buying some more equipment and would like to avoid surprises.


Here's some photos of the damage when it was delivered that I'd posted previously.

In the shrink wrap, speed knob, crosslide knob, plexiglass and lateral wheel broken:


Cross slide knob and the broken lateral wheel in the shrink wrap, indicating it occured after packing:


Fresh break: no oil:


You can see where it was rammed: the skirt is bent in, and the two parallel lines give the fingerprint of the object (forklift or was it in a van perhaps and hit the corner of something multiple times?):



Another view:


You can see the pallet is cracked too, giving a rough idea of the scope of the impact:


Broken plexiglass, bent rod holding it:


Unwrapped view:


Closer of the cross slide --- a very disturbing thing is that the knob was impacted heavily enough to damage the covering and likely the mechanism it covered:

This is the known most serious damage: the rod that drives threading has been severely bent. It's harder to see in photo than in real life, but I drew a line of the top and then turned it by hand, the gap gives a feel for the bend:

Top:


Rotated to low point:


I don't know if this can be replaced. As far as I know they don't make this lathe anymore, and the last known US distributor for emco parts does not have this model listed (I've sent email).

Here's the rod used to turn power on and off. It's been helpfully ripped from
the housing and the special switch used to control it destroyed:





Other things not pictured: the collet chuck and assembly were lost as was the
key to the lathe's storage compartment. Also, there is damage to the change gears which makes them very finicky.

I bet that their argument is that it was not properly packaged. This damage occures in the transfer terminals and those guys are not riggers, they pick up the pallet and move to annother truck as fast as possible. so if something is not packed properly it will be damaged, no two ways about it. it is not a matter of them being careless, that is simply the way it is. Alternate is paying for LTL machinery load, where the piece does not get transfered.

Your images are waaaay too large. Fix this ASAP or the thread will be deleted.

I don't know how you could expect it not to damaged with the lathe not being crated, properly. Looks to me like your beef should be with the shipper.

Unfortunately, it is exactly a matter of them being routinely careless. I have yet to have a machine shipped across the country that didn't suffer some damage, often lots of damage. I have yet to receive any insurance settlement from any of them. I think your chances are better on LTL, since $6/hr fork lift yahoos do much of the damage, however I had two mills shipped across the country and they didn't bother to tie them down, letting them play bumper cars for the trip. The insurance company in that case did not have any employees that spoke English, and I never was able to even file a claim.

I once was shipping a press that the buyer arranged shipping for. I recommended a flat bed and he insisted that a van with e track would be ok. The truck arrived with no etrack, the driver insisted that it was ok, I loaded, took careful exception on the BoL and watched as the truck turned around in the lot and the press fell over and ripped thru the side of the van. I had my camera ready so snapped a photo. Oddly he kept going and I never heard from anyone on that. I had a very similar incident where they tried to blame me but I had my BoL. Unless a machine tool is properly crated it has a 95% chance of being damaged, crated about a 25% chance on a common carrier.

Suing them is not likely to get you anywhere. Be sure you read the fine print on the contract. Generally speaking, it stipulates liability limits to be on the order of scrap metal prices.

This issue comes up over and over again. There ought to be a FAQ. As John notes, uncrated common carrier is very risky. Even crated is risky. I don't know why people even think of common carriers. There are specialty shippers that guarantee load is not touched from end to end (ie, it arrives exactly as it was unloaded), which alone eliminates about 98% of the risk (most carrier damage occurs by fork drivers at hubs where load is moved from truck to truck.) In my experience (several machines in last few years) the specialty carriers charge about half common carrier rates.

+1
FAQ explanation with links to specialty carriers.

Well I hate to say it but, the sender did not pack the lathe to survive common carrier shipping. The pallet should have been at least a few inches bigger than any projecting object. I have had several machines shipped x-country and I had one incident, the carrier never paid(not a total loss but an expensive part). Like your lathe the broken part was outside the envelope and a fork lift hit it.

When I shipped my Monarch 10EE I made sure that it was loaded on the trailer it made the journey in (no trans-loading). That machine was also skidded on a pallet nearly twice the footprint of the machine.

IMHO you ought to take this up with the sender.

Steve

Maybe we can put together a reference section for things like this. How to tie down, how to pack, how to ship etc. If you have not learned the hard way you really have no way of know these things. I learned the hard way, very expensive tuition.

Looks to me like it fell over. Is the skid underneath the same one the shipper put it on?

Sorry to see this happen to you. Are the ways trash now, or do you think you can fix it up? I hope there is no damage to the internal organs. They should pay if they forked it, regardless of packaging. Insurance usually won't pay if the box is not damaged. No amount of packing can protect anything from the shipping gorillas. Getting a claim through is like squeezing blood from a turnip. Used to ship sensitive instruments, and the bosses wife would say, "UPS. Tightest ass in the shipping business." All shipping claims I've been involved in were not worth the hassle. Always refuse anything in a damaged box or anyhting that's been forked to death.

First we should get our terminology right. A"common carrier" is one who hauls for hire, with exception of "contract carriers" who are under contract to a shipper. A carrier hauling virtually anything in any size shipment is "general commodity" carrier. An example would be Roadway ,Yellow, etc.
Who shipped the machine? It was not only not properly packed, it wasn't packed. Shrink wrap is no more packing than a coat of paint.

The carrier's liability is spelled out in the tariff. You have a better case against the shipper here. Also the choice of carriers sucked. It seems that constantly have threads about damaging machines moving them ourselves due to top heavy etc. These problems do not go away when a shipping order is signed. This should have been shipped by a flatbed carrier familiar with hauling machinery.
As has been mentioned in these forums before if you are going to ship these items and expect to be compensated for loss or damage at full value you need what is called an "Inland Marine" coverage. This from your underwriter , not the carrier.
The carrier however should have even picked this up as it was packed. I would not be surprised if the driver at pick-up noted the lack of protection which would relieve them of liability.

First we should get our terminology right. A"common carrier" is one who hauls for hire, with exception of "contract carriers" who are under contract to a shipper. A carrier hauling virtually anything in any size shipment is "general commodity" carrier. An example would be Roadway ,Yellow, etc.
Who shipped the machine? It was not only not properly packed, it wasn't packed. Shrink wrap is no more packing than a coat of paint.

The carrier's liability is spelled out in the tariff. You have a better case against the shipper here. Also the choice of carriers sucked. It seems that we constantly have threads about damaging machines moving them ourselves due to top heavy etc. These problems do not go away when a shipping order is signed. This should have been shipped by a flatbed carrier familiar with hauling machinery.
As has been mentioned in these forums before if you are going to ship these items and expect to be compensated for loss or damage at full value you need what is called an "Inland Marine" coverage. This from your underwriter , not the carrier.
The carrier however should have even picked this up as it was packed. I would not be surprised if the driver at pick-up noted the lack of protection which would relieve them of liability.

It appears that the machine with skids has been placed on a regualr pallet- the shipping company probably did that so they could move it around. It appears the skids on the machine have no provision to get forks under it for lifting- hence the apllet it is sittiing on. The machine looks to have been tipped over- probably in the process of placing it on the pallet. The skid should have been constructed wide enough to do 3 things- protect the sides of the machine, and keep it from tipping over and provision for lifting it and moving the machine at the truck terminal(s). This skid appears to do none of the above. As someone else pointed out- your beef should be with the person who prepared it for shipment. Tough lesson to learn, but you have to remember that common carrier freight can get transfered between trucks 3 or 4 times- and must be capable of surviving the moves. Dan

Coltz I sent you a pm about parts if you decide the machine is a total loss and want to part out please let me know as I have one and need some stuff. The damage on second look however really doesn't look too bad to me? Inexcusable yes, but is it worse then what we see, handles should be replaceable may want to try Reid supply, and sheet metal can be straightened? The dent on the cross feed dial may look annoying but it still should work, rember this is a machine tool not a prized sports car, the only thing I can see that I don't know about is the bent lead screw, even that I think is fixable if sent to the right guy. The chuck shield should be a common item and repaired easily and is not necessary for use (I don't like them my self). I guess the key question is how does she run, are there any large cracks in the carrage we can't see, or busted gear train with in? Have you run the machine yet? It would be a shame to loose such a nice lathe, good luck in fixing her but if you give up and she is scrap please do let me know.

Adam

That depends entirely on what tariff it was shipped under. If it was shipped under a tariff that insures the machine for only scrap value, the carrier is fine… they only need to compensate to the limit set in the tariff, which is what they appear to be offering.

I'm not really the guy to write this; it's been a very long time, and I'm hampered by not having a copy of the NMFC (National Motor Freight Carrier) item number index, but I did have to look into this at one time. Yes Virginia, you can ship a machine via motor freight without putting it either in a crate or on a pallet. The item, as I recall, was called something like MACHINERY, USED, FOR SCRAP, and the liability limit was something like $5 per cwt. (hundredweight, 100 lbs.). However, the rate was attractively cheap. There were various other machinery item definitions that required palletizing, palletizing and wrapping, or palletizing and crating. Each was more expensive per unit weight, but also had increased liability coverage. The big problem here is that it is up to the SHIPPER to rate the load, and the carrier is only liable for the amount stated in the tariff that defines the item number. So, it would appear that the OP's argument is with the shipper, not the carrier.

I will admit that this stuff is terribly confusing; people have made entire careers managing shipping for large companies, understanding the nuances of the tariffs to save them money while still having sufficient insurance against damage. It really would be an excellent idea to have all this explained in a sticky, but it needs to be written by one of these professionals who understands it.

Dennis

The ways seem good. There is some internal damage to the some of the gearing which makes engaging the "A" notch difficult. I'm not sure if there's damage to cross slide screw or such things.

I spent the last night repairing the costmetic damage (making handles, splash guard, getting the storage compartment open). I was able to bend the threading screw enough that it doesn't hit the half nut when you move the carriage, though it is still too bent to use.

The lowest hex bar controls the power --- I was able to get it in there enough that you can turn the machine off/on using a wrench. Looks like I can use a snap ring to hold in place.

It's a really nice machine. I'd recommend a v13 to anyone --- it rips that chuck around at 2,000+ rpm and doesn't vibrate.

Funny enough, the one time I had to do a claim it was with UPS and it went really smoothly...

Have any of you ever been to the annual scratch-and-dent sale that Grizzly puts on each year. Some of that heavy machinery looks like it had been loaded into a giant cement mixer. Most looks like it probably tipped over or broke loose from its moorings and collided with it's neighbor or something else very hard and solid....and this from a foreign supplier who ships them hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff and should know how to properly prepare machinery for shipping.