Machinist Level

Before, when I leveled my lathe, I used a Starrett machinist level borrowed from a friend. The friend has moved on now, so the level is no longer available. I need to do it again. At the risk of many insults, what does everyone think of the Grizzley machinist level? They advertise .0005 per 10 inches. I just cant afford a Starrett or high priced level right now.
John l

Here's a whole list of them. Just buy a good one.
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=machinist+level&_sacat=See-All-Categories
You may pay a little more, but you can always resell it here on PM. Someone will take it off your hands for close to what you bought it for.

Ask around. If it is for a one-time use, you can usually rent a #199 for a couple of hours, complete with machinist/owner, for a case of beer or a donation to the church of his choice.

Well, the important thing is that the base is perfectly flat and that the bulb is adjustable. A good quality level with an adjustable bulb can be set to as near perfect as your eye will allow. Any of the adjustable type in the ebay list would work. I have the 6" Starret because I wanted a short one for the work I was using it for. When I use it to level a lathe I have to use a wide parallel to span the ways.

I also have an antique adjustable level that is about 8" long and use it sometimes. If you have a mill you will need a good level from time to time so buy one.

0.0005 per 10 inches.
That is about 0,05mm/mtr
IMO you cannot level a lathe with that
That one is good for rough levelling
I use 0,01mm/mtr (well not so much anymore)
I do use cheap ones At least for lathes. I have a better square level for mills and so
It does not matter if it is 0,01 or 0,012/mtr
It is much more important to clean the level and the lathe every time you put it in place
I personly clean it with the mouse of my hand but that is my choise
Check if you clean it propperly by cleaning it and placing it in the same spot several times
It should give the same reading every time

Peter

Actually .0005" per 10" would do just fine. The thing you have to remember is your looking at a bubble in the vial between lines. There is no way your going to get dead nuts with that. Even with that thought, if the ways have a twist of .001" or .002" from the headstock to the tailstock end you are unlikely to be able to detect it in the work.

As long as you get the bubble as close as posible to the same line at each end of the lathe you will be ok. Don't get annal about getting it "perfectly" equal at both ends. Just do the best you can.

Be quite careful if you DO opt for the "Griz".......

I bought one from them, and had to send it back. It would not give consistent results, so I checked it on the granite flat...

I found that it blued up on three out of four corners, only.... nothing in the middle.

I could have scraped it in, but I didn't like the rate of pay I would have got for that job, so I declined it.

peterve said:

0.0005 per 10 inches

Click to expand...

The Starrett 199Z precision level is rated 0.0005 inch per 12 inches, not 10. Each division is 0.100" wide.

You can easily read the level to the width of the scribed division lines, which are too narrow for me to measure accurately.

Never had a problem leveling any decent machine with it to any desired limit of error.

- Leigh

levels

My experience with .0005 per 10" levels is it is amazing the error you find in machining and warpage. You will find the wear and settling of the casting you will need to bolt the lathe to a very solid floor to take the twist out if present my lathe has 4 leveling feet at the headstock and the tail to allow taking the sag out of bed from what I have seen the .0002 and .0001 per 10"levels would just frustrate the user. Jjust like reading an analog indicator or caliper you can read it farther than the resolution marks easily due to distance between divisions
probably more important than absolute level is the tram on the head stock I have found many lathes are out of tram and have the ablity to steer the head stock . this can be frustrating if you do not know the pivot point . What you do is tram the tail stock to head stock as close as possible then check it as far away as possible Make a very slight correction then re tram tail stock close up and recheck at full extreme repeat till you have got it to an exceptable error when tramming lok at the vertical elevation but warning the sag in the method of checking at full distance may play havoc with you mind the time spent checking head stock tram can make a fair working lathe gain a lot of accuracy when turning straight sections

I just use a Starrett #98..Good enough for most people...

How close do you think your going to get with a bubble?

Tom

I received a lubrication chart for 9/10K lathes from South Bend and it covers
setting up the lathe. It states "...sufficiently sensitive to show a distinct movement
of the bubble when a .003" shim is placed under one end of the level." I purchased
a Starrett 98-6 which has sensitivity some what greater than that.

Ed P

Edit: They were referring to a 12" level, for my 6" level that would be a .0015" shim.

level gets you close
proof is in the cut
if you have gross twist in a lathe a cheep level will show it

You can get pretty much dead-nuts even with the Starrett 98. I have a 98, and a Starrett 199, and a Swiss level that is .0002 in 12". As an experiment, I once leveled my AA calibrated granite plate with the Starrett 98, and then checked it with the more precise levels. The 98 had gotten it to within .0002.

The key thing is that the base be dead-flat. I hand-scraped my 98. I bought it new, and it didn't need a lot of work, but it is just ground at the factory (not scraped in like the 199).

A good level vial is an extremely repeatable thing. As long as you have it flat, level in the orthogonal direction, and view it from a consistent angle, you can reliably eyeball 1/5 of a vial division, or better. To get a feel for a level, level it on something that you can fine adjust the height of one end (for example, I have a micrometer adjust height gage thing I can put on end on). Then put a tenths dial indicator on that end, and adjust it up a tenth or two at a time and observe the level.

In any event, Starrett 199 sell every week on eBay for $150-$250, so consider a used one, though you may have to calibrate/scape a tiny bit to bring it to like-new.

Moore and Wright (sort of the British Starrett) makes a level equivalent to the 199, and they always bring much lower prices in the US. Recently a couple of them, brand-new, went for ~$70 each. They only come up every couple months probably, but you might want to create a saved search to catch one in the long run. The more obscure things also sell for less. My fancy swiss job retails for about two grand and I picked it up on eBay for $200.

And of course, it the lathe cuts OK, it's level enough.

It is not important at all to get the bed 'level' across the ways at each end. What IS important is that the level have the same reading across the ways all along the ways. That is to say, for example, if the level reads a half bubble high at the headstock with the high end being the front of the lathe then one wants the level to read a half bubble high towards the front at the tailstock end also... and the same reading anywhere in between those two positions. With a very sensitive level such as the Starrett No. 199 this can be very frustrating to achieve. It may take many cycles of place-level-adjust-check-level to get close.

When the level is placed along the ways it is important that the bubble be in the same position for the front and the back way. It is also important that the bubble return to that position as the level is placed at different points along the ways.

The level will tell you nothing about tram of the headstock about a vertical axis. It could tell you about tilt of the headstock about a horizontal axis at right angles to the axis of the spindle if you use something like a Starrett No. 98 placed on a straight and true bar held in the chuck. A dial indicator moved along the ways or mounted on the carriage could tell you the same thing.

-DU-

If I have 1 division twist with that 0,05/1mtr level over a certain lenght on a lathe with a centerheight of 0,2mtr the center of the tailstock will twist 0,2 x0,05=0,01mm (and also your cutting tool )

So if you have your tailstock trammed propper at the beginning of that twist you are 0,01 off if you move your tailstock to the end of that twist
And that 0,01 off results in a 0,02 taper over the distance between the centers
If you have to tram your tailstock when turning different lenghts your bed is either twisted or you have wear on the ways of your tailstock

Also if you are taking a cut over the lenght of that twisted/worn area you get a 0,02 mm fault being 0,008 inch
And that is substantional

So I keep using my 0,02/mtr lever(not 0.01/mtr like mentioned in my earlier post sorry )

Peter

Peter --

Um, no.

Using American-English notation: 0.02 millimeter x (1 inch / 25.4 millimeter) = 0.0008 inch

Using European notation: 0,02 millimeter x (1 inch / 25,4 millimeter) = 0,0008 inch

(Inch value rounded to 4 decimal places.)

John

of course you do reverse the level to see if you get the same reading don't you? Peter

oldbrock said:

of course you do reverse the level to see if you get the same reading don't you? Peter

Click to expand...

Of coarse but actualy it does not matter Because the level itself is not important like mentioned before many times already on this forum It is just a helpfull way to check alignment
I do always measer the same way around and on the lenght of the ways I even mark the spots wher I measure,even with a good lever

Well not doing it that often anymore


Peter

John Garner said:

Peter --

Um, no.

Using American-English notation: 0.02 millimeter x (1 inch / 25.4 millimeter) = 0.0008 inch

Using European notation: 0,02 millimeter x (1 inch / 25,4 millimeter) = 0,0008 inch

(Inch value rounded to 4 decimal places.)

John

Click to expand...

Mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa

But it is still to much

Peter