Best ways to start a home shop?

MattU · Jul 31, 2014

So, after a couple weeks in my new position at work. I've come to find out almost zero machining happens here. Being an automotive factory the biggest portion of machining happens during the model changes. That is once a year for minor model changes and about 5 years for major model changes. The rest of the time we just kill time and every few months have to fix a stamping die or injection mold. It's going to drive me crazy.

With this in mind. I've begun contemplating building a home shop. I'd fully intend to make a living at it but If it doesn't take off I'll still have a job. If it does I can go part time at my job and only work Mondays and Fridays. The benefit of this is I'll get to keep my insurance and benefits. if the shop gets slow later I can go back to full time and I'll have myself a nice shop to play in.

With the general background laid out. My questions are:

Shop size and height. I don't want to go to big at first. If it fails I don't want a huge building on my property with no use. But I don't want to have to add on immediately either. Let's assume I want a vf3, vf1, manual mill, and lathe, surface grinder, drill press. Plus the other odds and ends.

What machine in your opinion will be most likely to start bringing in money soonest assuming I find work for it?

This is getting long so but it's a start. I know there is much more then just buying machines and getting to work. I am aware of the other things that come with this please lets not go down that road.

allloutmx · Jul 31, 2014

buy a CNC lathe and a bar feeder if you got the money... You don't need tall ceilings, they run and run and run

stonehaven · Jul 31, 2014

Better have the work lined up before you get into the cnc stuff, start with a manual lathe, mill, and get a decent drill press, bandsaw, air compressor, welders, oxy acetaline torch. Build a press, gantry crane, tables, workbenches, etc. Buy a shitload of cutters and tooling and start there. Once your known, and got the work flowing in and out you will be ok. Be prepared for 12 hr plus days and hardly any vacation. Good luck

Lumberjack · Jul 31, 2014

I don`t think I ever came across anyone with a tiny bit of fantasy saying they got a too big building with no use for..

If you gonna make a living out of it you`ll need to accomodate some storage area for material and some open floor space, for example loading / unloading goods, well maybe not need but you will Want it sooner or later.

Bobw · Jul 31, 2014

Lumberjack said:
I don`t think I ever came across anyone with a tiny bit of fantasy saying they got a too big building with no use for..

You may not need the room for machines, but everybody needs an indoor go-kart track.

MattU · Jul 31, 2014

How did I not think of that! Bigger it is.

projectnut · Jul 31, 2014

You don't even need to build something on your property immediately. If you can find an existing building nearby with the space and power requirements leasing is an option. A friend of mine did just exactly that for several years before buying another existing building. His business grew rapidly and he was able to find the machines he needed at bargain basement prices. Leasing gives you a lot of options and a lot less cash outlay while your business grows. It would be a shame to miss out on business because your cash flow was tied up paying for real estate rather than going to machines that could make you money. If in time you decide the location or the business no longer interest you a 90 day notice is all it usually takes to cancel the lease. If things take off you can plan and build a new building while maintaining a work flow.

Also the type of work you're after should dictate the types of machines you buy. If your most of your business is repair work or recreating broken or worn parts a manual lathe and mill would be a good and inexpensive way to start. If you're looking for contract work with medium to large companies a CNC machining center and/or lathe would be in order. If you want to make a large volume of small parts, a screw machine may be the way to go. I think you can get the idea that the type of business you want to be in should determine what machines you buy.

Gary E · Jul 31, 2014

allloutmx said:
buy a CNC lathe and a bar feeder if you got the money... You don't need tall ceilings, they run and run and run

Mattu,
Sounds like allloutmx is either a machinery salesman or maybe he works in a bank or a leasing company and knows where a repo is.

Now as to how to start a shop?.... you first start with maybe $200,000.00 min CASH in YOUR bank acct, and willing to spend it.. most all of it... You got that?
then you need a CUSTOMER..... got one of those???

Let us know when you do, you'l get more advice....

MattU · Jul 31, 2014

Right now I have $100,000 to invest. And about $1000 being added every month. Id hope I could make a good start with that. It seems odd for people to hold advice for lack of the askers funds.

jamie76x · Jul 31, 2014

It depends on what type of work you can wrangle up in your area. If there is little to no work, then you need little to no equipment.
I know plenty of guys making a good living with a small 2 bay garage with 1 mill, 1 lathe and one grinder. I also know of shops full of equipment with only one machine running.

Oldwrench · Jul 31, 2014

MattU said:
Right now I have $100,000 to invest. And about $1000 being added every month. Id hope I could make a good start with that. It seems odd for people to hold advice for lack of the askers funds.

Not to be discouraging but if you have that much cash on hand you had better keep it. Know how to make a small fortune by going into the machining business? Start with a large one.

sfriedberg · Jul 31, 2014

OK, for less than $100,000 from scratch, I had a nice 24x28 pole building erected with 13' ceilings, a 12x12 overhead door, heating&cooling and a dedicated 200A electric supply, and populated it with a 3T gantry crane, a #3 sized mill, a #0 sized hand miller, a 16x40 lathe, a hand screw machine/turret lathe, a large tool and cutter grinder, a 6x18 surface grinder, a 7x12 miter band saw, a small vertical bandsaw, usual zoo of small grinders and sanders, two small welding outfits, about 3 tons of cutters and other tooling, lots of shelving and roller cabinets, and not nearly enough space to walk in.

Almost all of my machines are old, so came for a small multiple of scrap price. But I can't imagine $100K not buying you a pretty nifty shop to your specs.

Bobw · Jul 31, 2014

When I got involved in THIS business, this particular one... We ended up renting the corner of a woodworking shop...
The whole building was 1600 sqft and the "shop" floor probably less than 1200, so really really really small, and we had
just one corner.....

It was next to my business partners house.... Material would show up, I'd throw it over the fence, he'd cut it on the HF bandsaw
sitting on his back porch, toss it back over the fence, I'd machine it... Toss it back over the fence, he'd wash it in the bathroom
sink, hang it from a tree over his back porch, coat it, then cook it in the back shed in the oven, or if it was a big part, he'd
cook it on the grill....

The first real machines... A 9x20 jet, an $1800 Acroloc, a $1500 wells index with a bandit control... We also had bought a $4000
Mazak QT20 that sat in storage since we had no place to put it. There was also an old 1918 lathe, with a giant wooden pulley
and babbit bearings that actually made some money... The HF bandsaw and some other stuff... like BOBcad.

Mostly on credit cards.

Anyways, it doesn't have to cost a LOT to get into the game, you don't have to be rich to start a business..

What does help is contacts, if you don't have work, you can't buy new toys.

PeteM · Jul 31, 2014

Variations on this question have appeared dozens of times before -- so a search of old threads might be useful.

Most of them are prompted more by "wouldn't it be cool to have lots of machines and make both stuff and some money" than "I've identified a critical customer need that I'm uniquely qualified to meet." If you really want to make a business out of this -- spend time on the customer side. If you'd be happy with a bit of supplemental income, maybe start with the usual basics slanted to what ever skills and interests you have.
Meanwhile, in my old age I'm hoping to become a wildly successful gigolo. What kind of car should I buy? :sulk:

allloutmx · Jul 31, 2014

Gary E said:
Mattu,
Sounds like allloutmx is either a machinery salesman or maybe he works in a bank or a leasing company and knows where a repo is.

Now as to how to start a shop?.... you first start with maybe $200,000.00 min CASH in YOUR bank acct, and willing to spend it.. most all of it... You got that?
then you need a CUSTOMER..... got one of those???

Let us know when you do, you'l get more advice....

Nope... If i was either, i wouldnt be hanging out with you knuckle heads

Looking back on how i started out at home and where i put my money. Knowing now what i shoulda known then could have yielded me a better immediate return on my investment. Maybe not... But even without a bar feeder, a lathe is an awesome way to start making money. Just my .02

SLG · Jul 31, 2014

MattU said:
Right now I have $100,000 to invest. And about $1000 being added every month. Id hope I could make a good start with that. It seems odd for people to hold advice for lack of the askers funds.

As a suggestion: Conserve your cash - rent your operating and startup capitol.

Look into an SBA loan. As I understand it, on a $250,000 project, you put up $37,500 and SBA will (basically) guarantee $212,500. You can use the funds in a variety of ways, with some mighty favorable terms. An extra piece of equipment or two will enable you to take some jobs you would otherwise have missed.

One of the best things about an SBA loan is it will force you to write a business plan

matt_isserstedt · Jul 31, 2014

My take is keep investment low, at first, and add as you acquire work. Build a building you can add to, simply by increasing the length, or one where a lean-to shed could be added. If its on your home property you have to think somewhat of the next person buying it (Iow, don't create such a detailed white elephant that nobody would ever buy it and your investment is lost) and they might have an RV or boats or tractors, etc rather than machines. For the Midwest winters I would invest in some insulation. Paying your profits to utilities or working in a cold place are both de-motivators.

In a one man shop you have to be productive, this means something like an auto cut bandsaw and/or a coldsaw, both have their uses for speeding up cutoff work by either running unattended or eliminating a machining operation on a face. You also have to think on the opposite end, programming the machines, and whether conversational will get you where you want to go or you need another form of CAM to download to the machine. You might spend a lot of time in a computer room, so that is probably important too.

Last - tig welding, not sure if you already have the skill but its one of the most useful capabilities for making quick fixtures, brackets, making things leak-tight, you name it. I highly recommend training yourself and getting started on a tig machine if you don't already have one.

kpotter · Jul 31, 2014

I started with a BP and an old lathe. I was given a power hacksaw, I think starting with alot of money is nuts, the whole reason to make the shop is to make a pile of money. I had no money and a 500 dollar limit credit card, 7 years ago. If I had a 100 grand in the bank I wouldnt have needed to start a home shop, I would have kept doing what I was doing that got me the 100 grand. I now have a bunch of machines and a building that I own but I didnt get it by doing work for others, that is how you go broke. Make a product and sell it. Make anything it doesnt have to be new or amazing, nothing is made here as far as consumer products, pick something and go at it.

shamanj · Jul 31, 2014

There is a lot of nay sayers on here... saying nay... nayyyyy! (Spelling of nay might not be correct in this instance but if your going to grammar nazi me then EADC.)

But, I started with a 50/60 yr old hercus 9 lathe at home, converted it to metric with some back gear fidgetry. Made 200 bucks a week on top of my day job for an hour or so's work within the first week on ebay with it and consistantly pulled between 100 to 200 a week with ease. Just made the parts, listed them and they kept on selling.

Here's the trick, I had a patient recently who was exceptionally wealthy and a little... well... a lot eccentric. "Don't tell people what they need or want. Give people a product they want, at a price they can afford. That's the way to get rich."
He's worth a billion + when I checked.

Work smart.
Not hard.
Machining brings me so much more joy then the $$$ value is worth, but the money is well worth it.

Vernon Tuck · Jul 31, 2014

Oldwrench said:
Not to be discouraging but if you have that much cash on hand you had better keep it. Know how to make a small fortune by going into the machining business? Start with a large one.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

I'm gonna recycle a farmer joke I've told here twice already. But I will tweak it by substituting "machinist".

"Joe, a machinist, wins $10 million dollars in the lottery. His neighbor, also a machinist, stops by to congratulate him...

"Congratulations, Joe! That's fantastic! Well, what are you gonna do now?"

Joe says, "Heck, I dunno Pete. I guess I'll just keep machining until the money's gone!"

This is nobody's business but your own... but consider buying a $100K structured annuity, and then investing the MONTHLY RETURN from the annuity in a machining business.

But before you dash out and drop your $100K read Kevin's post here:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...es/watched-2-my-vendors-go-under-week-288838/

Vernon

Best ways to start a home shop?

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