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  1. #1
    Toms Wheels's Avatar
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    Default Box Turning Tool

    Today I needed to size down some small brass. I have a tool but had never seen one in use. The setup with many tries for size took time. The cutter placement was the challenge. Should the bit be positioned at the exact top of the piece on size, I seem to have best results at the 1:00 position. Should the followers be just touching the work, or a tad of loaded. It sure is easy to use once set up. I'm impressed with the finish, just need a bit of experienced guideance with it.

  2. #2
    67Cuda's Avatar
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    Can I get a prescription to whatever is it is your doctors given you?

    Tom

  3. #3
    RC99's Avatar
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    Sorry to say this Tom, but your post makes no sense what so ever, any chance you could re write it??

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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    Sorry to say this Tom, but your post makes no sense what so ever...
    He's asking how to use a box tool.

    Where should the cutter be positioned? (It seems to work best at the 1:00 o'clock position.)

    How much pressure should be exerted by the follower fingers, if any?

    Perhaps you shouldn't try to read on Saturday night.

    - Leigh

  5. #5
    machtool is offline Titanium
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Leigh View Post
    Perhaps you shouldn't try to read on Saturday night. - Leigh
    Wouldn’t that be a matter of which Tom he’s referring too? The one with the box tool problem, or the guy asking for drugs. Both Toms.

    BTW. Its Sunday afternoon down here.

    Phil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machtool View Post
    Wouldn’t that be a matter of which Tom he’s referring too? The one with the box tool problem, or the guy asking for drugs. Both Toms.
    Hi phil,

    OK. He was addressing 67cuda.

    Since I never read 'cuda's posts, I didn't realize he was also named Tom.

    Just a bit more confusion.

    - Leigh

  7. #7
    67Cuda's Avatar
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    OK, I plead ignorance on "what is a box tool". I'm sure many here will jump all over this statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by The real Leigh View Post
    Perhaps you shouldn't try to read on Saturday night.

    - Leigh
    That is a true statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by The real Leigh View Post
    Since I never read 'cuda's posts, I didn't realize he was also named Tom.


    - Leigh
    Never?

  8. #8
    67Cuda's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toms Wheels View Post
    Today I needed to size down some small brass. I have a tool but had never seen one in use. The setup with many tries for size took time. The cutter placement was the challenge. Should the bit be positioned at the exact top of the piece on size, I seem to have best results at the 1:00 position. Should the followers be just touching the work, or a tad of loaded. It sure is easy to use once set up. I'm impressed with the finish, just need a bit of experienced guideance with it.
    Here is a link, only link, I found searching for "Box Turning Tool".

    I'm sure Leigh knows all about this and can give you the straight dope on it.

    http://www.homemodelenginemachinist....p?topic=3130.0


    Tom

  9. #9
    SwissPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toms Wheels View Post
    Today I needed to size down some small brass. I have a tool but had never seen one in use. The setup with many tries for size took time. The cutter placement was the challenge. Should the bit be positioned at the exact top of the piece on size, I seem to have best results at the 1:00 position. Should the followers be just touching the work, or a tad of loaded. It sure is easy to use once set up. I'm impressed with the finish, just need a bit of experienced guideance with it.
    I assume this is a roller box tool? If so try this link - http://www.sommatool.com/manuscripts/is-1.asp It should clear up your questions.

    More good info here - http://www.sommatool.com/papers.asp

  10. #10
    Mark McGrath is offline Diamond
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    Turn up stub to correct diameter using tool in the crosslide.Bring box tool up and set rollers to previously turned diameter.You want the rollers turning with the work but light finger pressure will stop them.Obviously you are running at low revs here.Set tool up to work.To adjust size only adjust the tool,do not move the rollers.There are two types of box tool,one where the rollers are behind the tool and the other where they are in front.You also need to chamfer the bar end before using the box tool.
    Watch Ebay for capstan/turret lathe operators books,you will learn a lot from them.

  11. #11
    RC99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Leigh View Post
    Hi phil,

    OK. He was addressing 67cuda.

    Nah I wasn't actually, I have never heard of a box tool..Still have no idea (like always)

    What's the saying....Better to say nothing and be thought a fool then saying something and removing all doubt.

  12. #12
    walter west is offline Cast Iron
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    Default Box tool

    If you want to see what a box tool looks like, look at some of the older Brown and Sharp tool catalogs. You can almost see how they work by the way they are constructed. I picked up a adjustable diameter reducing one years ago in anticipation of getting a South Bend lathe Heavy ten turret and this week I got a nice one.
    Walt

  13. #13
    pepo is offline Hot Rolled
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    With a box tool if you run the rollers on the stock ahead of where the chip is made this will control concentricity between the stock and the turned diameter. But,the size of the turned diameter will vary as much or more as the size of the stock does. Running the rollers on the turned diameter controls size better but with a loss of concentricity to the stock and sometimes chip control problems. Also a small stub must be turned on the end of the stock to let the tool get started.

  14. #14
    beckley23 is offline Titanium
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    Assume the box tool is like a follower rest on an engine lathe, except that it is a much more rigid structure.
    I adjust the rollers on my W&S roller turners so that I can stop the rollers from turning with finger pressure. These adjustments are made within 2" of the collet nose. Then the cutter is adjusted. I can also adjust the position of the rollers to lead or follow the cutter. If they follow, you should get a slight burnishing action.
    Harry

  15. #15
    Toms Wheels's Avatar
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    Default Box Turning Tool

    Cuda, I doubt the meds I take have much effect on my thinking. Although Dry Eyes, Running Nose, Blurry Vision and Constapation are common side effects.

    The tool I'm using has the rollers behind the cutter about .01" The cutting position of the bit against the work is the area which that I'm concerned with. This is a B&S size 00 tool.

  16. #16
    jim rozen is offline Diamond
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    LOL. Tom's questions make perfect sense - to an ex-novice who figured out box
    tools on his own. Well to be honest there was an rcm gent who gave me a real
    leg up.

    1) the spindle turns in the conventional direction. (for a while, I was sure it had
    to be run in reverse. I was wrong)

    2) the roller box tool in question has a the tool sit on a rocker which is controlled
    from two square head screws. The rocker puts the tool "on center" and does not
    adjust the depth of cut.

    3) the depth of cut is adjusted via a screw that moves the tool sort of back and
    forth. I should really take photos....

    4) the tool can be sharpened with only ONE grind, across its end. The end of the
    tool is basically what would be the top in normal operation. The front clearance is
    basically predetermined by the angle the tool makes, with the vertical.

    5) once the tool is all set up, it really does not matter what orientation you put the
    tool into the turret. I can be any orientation and it will still cut as well. There will
    be a preferred orientation for the chips to fall away. I seem to recall this is with the
    tool towards the operator but try it and see.

    6) the rollers. There are two ways to do it, rollers running on the un-turned
    portion, and rollers turning on the diameter that has been turned by the tool
    already. Either way works, in one case the tool is a bit forward of the rollers,
    and you set the rollers with a pre-turned bit of stock in the spindle. In the other
    way, the tool is a bit back of the rollers, and you set the rollers on raw stock.

    If you use the rollers on the turned portion you get a nice burnished effect sometimes.

    I like to set the roller that opposes the tool, first, because it will have a large
    effect on the finished diameter. The 'top' roller just keeps the workpiece from
    climbing the tool.

    Good luck tom1, roller box tools were a real eye-opener for me.

    Jim

  17. #17
    jims's Avatar
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    Default box tool ,box mill , bar turner

    A pic makes it a lot easier to understand many things. Box tools can be mounted on a lathe
    in a fixed position. See pic. Or they can be mounted in a turret bore that is on centerline and in that case the tool will be on center no matter where the cutting tool is at top ,1 o'clock, 3 o'clock ect. In pic the fixed box tools have the cutting tool at 3 o'clock. But if the box tool with the round shank is mounted the cutting tool can be on top side or anywhere. That is why op is talking about where the tool is at 1 o'clock.
    Box tools can also be used to face and chamfer the ends of shafts if you are creative in grinding
    a tool to do same. It's tricky but once set up it works great. In the old days on a turret lathe
    that would save one position of the turret to use for another tool. Also had tool that was a combination stop and spot drill in one for same reason.

    Jim [old turret lathe man]



  18. #18
    airbrush is offline Aluminum
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    I was wondering what they looked like and found a couple of old drawings at this link ....

    < http://chestofbooks.com/home-improve...he-Turret.html >

    AL

  19. #19
    67Cuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toms Wheels View Post
    Cuda, I doubt the meds I take have much effect on my thinking. Although Dry Eyes, Running Nose, Blurry Vision and Constapation are common side effects.
    Thanks Tom for taking it easy on me, but when you were describing the problem you were having, without knowing what a box tool was, I thought what the hell is he describing. I’ve learned something new.

    My apologies to all, except the arrogant "The Real Leigh".


    Tom

  20. #20
    Toms Wheels's Avatar
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    Default Clocking the Box Turner

    The clock position I mentioned, was not relative to the lathe. The positio question was, the angle of the tool bit centerline to the work piece centerline. 90° or some other angle. In other words on a lathe with a regular turning tool the bit is at 3:00, or 90° from straight up/dn.

    The tough part with this #00 tool, is it is so darn small. And I was using it on a Myford S7, not much clearance to the bed.

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