Brother speedio tooling question

Jokercnc89 · Aug 23, 2017

Hello All! New forum member and first post so howdy haha. I just had a quick question. We just recently got rid of 4 of our Haas VF2s and purchased 2 new Brothers. A s1000x1 and a R450x1. 2 more weeks till they arrive (super excited!) But I just would like to know what tool holders you guys like/what is the correct pull studs for the brother machines. Always been a 40 taper guy haha. Thanks all!

eaglemike · Aug 23, 2017

Congrats!
Go to Mari Tool. I have new Brother machines too. Mari is my go to place........
500, 700, and 450

gkoenig · Aug 23, 2017

Jokercnc89 said:
Hello All! New forum member and first post so howdy haha. I just had a quick question. We just recently got rid of 4 of our Haas VF2s and purchased 2 new Brothers. A s1000x1 and a R450x1. 2 more weeks till they arrive (super excited!) But I just would like to know what tool holders you guys like/what is the correct pull studs for the brother machines. Always been a 40 taper guy haha. Thanks all!

The correct pull studs are made by Frank at Maritool:
Brother Pull Studs - Retention Knobs Made in USA - MariTool

For your roughing and hard hitter tools, go with the high-strength variant.

Toolholders depend on what kind of work/material. The rule with 30 taper machines is that gauge length is the killer; keep *everything* as short as you possibly can. The cool guy roughing strategy is .375" or .5" roughing tools in Maritool's super stubby end mill holders:

BT3 3/8 END MILL TOOL HOLDER .375-1.1 Made in USA MariTool

If I was re-tooling from scratch, I would also use Frank's SK holders for all my end mills of various types. Better grip and runout than ER collets, and his pricing on both the holders and collets makes it a no brainer compared to ER. The new SK10 variant gets you a small nose diameter which is nice.

ER collets are still my go-to when it comes to drills and the like just because you can get away with a wider range with less of them around.

Heavy roughing in harder materials, Sandvik has done a lot of work in dampened Capto based BT30 holders and screw-in tools that have some very impressive demos:

BT3 - Integrated holders - Sandvik Coromant - YouTube

TrollTuner · Aug 23, 2017

I have mostly Maritool holders and pull studs for the last couple years in my S700 16K BigPlus

For 1/2 heavy cutters I have a couple of BigKaiser/Daishowa Mega-E 50 Sort of SK holders.

Maritool added the 1/2" stubby facemill arbor after I suggested it. That was pretty cool. With a little Iscar HM390-15 Facemill Works great for Aluminum.

Mtndew · Aug 23, 2017

Another vote for Mari Tool.
Quality stuff at good prices.

Jokercnc89 · Aug 23, 2017

Thanks a million guys! Just took a look at that site. Looks like quality stuff for sure! Looks like I got some shopping to do haha.

Tonytn36 · Aug 23, 2017

Another vote for Mari. I think we are up to 27 Brother machines now. I have been using some Albrect uber chucks and I have come to hate them. Too long, and the gears wear out. Also had several of the collets break. I've went back to Mari ER 32's (52 mm gauge) for the larger stuff, although I have a couple of BIG hydraulics I'm testing that seem to be working very well (60 mm gauge length). I have a quote on some hydraulics that are 52 mm gauge length, I'm going to give them a try soon.

gkoenig · Aug 23, 2017

Tonytn36 said:
Another vote for Mari. I think we are up to 27 Brother machines now. I have been using some Albrect uber chucks and I have come to hate them. Too long, and the gears wear out. Also had several of the collets break. I've went back to Mari ER 32's (52 mm gauge) for the larger stuff, although I have a couple of BIG hydraulics I'm testing that seem to be working very well (60 mm gauge length). I have a quote on some hydraulics that are 52 mm gauge length, I'm going to give them a try soon.

Have you tried the Schunk hydraulic ones? I bought 2 off the ebay and think they are pretty fantastic... until I tried roughing with the 1/4" one a little too vigorously, got some pullout and blew up the holder.

gkoenig · Aug 23, 2017

Jokercnc89 said:
Thanks a million guys! Just took a look at that site. Looks like quality stuff for sure! Looks like I got some shopping to do haha.

It helps that Frank (the owner of Maritool) owns a BT30 Robodrill and knows the ins and outs of the platform.

fmari --MariTool- · Aug 24, 2017

Hey guys!
I actually own a L&K TC-710. It is a BT30 machine but has a 21 tool side mount and can handle tools up to 14" length.

Instagram

Instagram

But in my past I was in charge of and programmed 4 robomills and 2 Miyano TSV drill & tap centers. I am very experienced with 40 and 30 taper machines. Gkoenig is correct, its all about gage length when it comes to machining with success in BT30 machines.

Tonytn36 · Aug 24, 2017

gkoenig said:
Have you tried the Schunk hydraulic ones? I bought 2 off the ebay and think they are pretty fantastic... until I tried roughing with the 1/4" one a little too vigorously, got some pullout and blew up the holder.

My Schunk rep sent one in, but the gauge length isn't much better than the Albrect. Frank is one of the few offering 52 mm in a ER32 size holder (hydraulic or ER). There is one company I have a quote from (as above) that is offering a 52 mm hydraulic. As stated, I'm going to order a couple and give them a try just to see. There is a discernible difference in performance between a 60 and 52 on a 30 taper. 8 mm may not seem like much, but it is on a 30. I also run some ISCAR ER16's that project a whopping 3 mm from the flange.

gkoenig · Aug 24, 2017

Tonytn36 said:
My Schunk rep sent one in, but the gauge length isn't much better than the Albrect. Frank is one of the few offering 52 mm in a ER32 size holder (hydraulic or ER). There is one company I have a quote from (as above) that is offering a 52 mm hydraulic. As stated, I'm going to order a couple and give them a try just to see. There is a discernible difference in performance between a 60 and 52 on a 30 taper. 8 mm may not seem like much, but it is on a 30. I also run some ISCAR ER16's that project a whopping 3 mm from the flange.

Something like this?

CMT Industrial Solutions

Frank? Help me not give fucking ISCAR my money and make some stubby BT ER holders!

Tonytn36 · Aug 25, 2017

gkoenig said:
Something like this?

CMT Industrial Solutions

Frank? Help me not give fucking ISCAR my money and make some stubby BT ER holders!

Yup, like those. (It is a PITA to get them in and out of the tool turret because they are so short with 2 mm drills in them, but they work very well.

G-Auto · Aug 25, 2017

Whatever you do ....do not get coolant through pull studs unless the tool absolutely is using TSC. The brother style is very weak and I have had two TSC studs break causing spindle bearings to die.

fmari --MariTool- · Aug 25, 2017

Guys,
Be very careful with those "zero" gage length collet chucks where the collet taper actually sits in the area where the outer taper is. Long time ago I was experimenting with CAT40-ER32 collet chucks with a .750 gage length. When you tightened the collet nut the collet distorted the outside taper of the tool holder. Not just a little but a few tenths in diameter. The holder lost concentricity and did not sit correctly in the machine tool. Running a holder like this often enough will ruin your spindle taper.

riabma77 · Sep 8, 2017

I recently started using hydraulic tool holders (CAT40), and I'm really impressed with the results.
I'm considering to buy a Speedio or Robodrill, so I'm evaluating what tooling is available.
In BBT30, I'm aware only of BK with a 2.5" gage length, for a 5/8" end mill (It's curious that the 16mm is available in 1.77").
Does anybody know about another option with shorter length?

TrollTuner · Sep 8, 2017

riabma77, 5/8 Endmill is a bit on the bigger side for BBt30 Wont be able to run it very hard.

riabma77 · Sep 8, 2017

TrollTuner said:
riabma77, 5/8 Endmill is a bit on the bigger side for BBt30 Wont be able to run it very hard.

80% of the time is plastic. Rest is aluminum and always side profiling using HSM. Cutting length between 1.625" and 2.75".
I did review the application with Yamazen and Fanuc and both agree that BBT30 will be fine.
Current machine is a Haas Mini, with about 1,000 Lbs drawbar force.
They claim that the Speedio / Robidrill are more rigid than the Mini. I think the drawbar force for BBT30 is higher than 1,000 Lbs.
However, I haven't received any feedback regarding the durability and fatigue of the retention knobs. This is the biggest concern I have: Keep with CAT40 or move with BBT30.

BROTHERFRANK · Sep 9, 2017

riabma77 said:
This is the biggest concern I have: Keep with CAT40 or move with BBT30.

The most common comment we hear from new users is "I/We should have done this sooner"! Consider the literally 100s of thousands of BT30 machines installed since 1985, many in critical JIT 24/7 type applications, with millions and millions of retention knobs in service, producing billions of components most of us use everyday. For many applications, the 30 taper will be a much more efficient choice than a 40 taper. On top of that, shops are very happy with the user friendliness, accuracy, reliability and support that comes with the Brother machines.

Tonytn36 · Sep 9, 2017

I have pull studs on 6-month and 1-year change frequencies. For tools with long stick-out and side forces, 6 months. For plunge type tools, 1 year. You can buy a lot of pull studs for the cost of a spindle. They are a wear item just like tools IMHO.

Brother speedio tooling question

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