Yet another boring head quality question

smootz · Dec 31, 2009

I have a super cheapo 2" boring head. It has a crappy feel but ironically bores quite accurately.

Last week I had to bore 3" half holes in some heavy plate. Wanting some sheer weight for the interrupted cut, I borrowed a 3-1/2" boring head. It was an ENCO brand. Wow, is it ever nice! Fit and finish is pretty, it is tight and smooth, a real pleasure to hold in your hand. There is no discernible backlash in the lead screw. It is nothing like my cheapo. It also has a "sweep" feature.

Way down in the box was the original receipt. The tool was bought in 1978 and cost $550-.

My question is; Was this an import back in 1978 ?

SCOTTIE

PixMan · Dec 31, 2009

Not sure what you mean by "sweep" feature, but if it's what I'm thinking you might have a higher-quality (or re-badged) copy of a Wohlhaupter boring head.

tdmidget · Dec 31, 2009

"Sweep" feature? I think you have a boring and facing head. The Encos were made in France but I don't remember the mfr. Enco used to be a very good supplier before they were bought by MSC and turned into a discount and import junk outlet.

grandtools · Dec 31, 2009

If the boring head has an auto feed feature (facing) it's most likely made in France. Back at that time Enco sold some very good products, most being Imported from Japan, Spain, France etc. Plus, they made a lot of their own products (toolposts, turrets, etc.) right in their own shop in Chicago.

moonlight machine · Dec 31, 2009

I have one of the French made Enco boring / facing heads. I bought it new in about 1977. I don't remember what it cost for sure but it was around $500.00, witch back in those days was a lot of money. It has had a lot of use but is still in as new condition. It is a real high quality piece and is a joy to use......

morsetaper2 · Dec 31, 2009

smootz said:
.....I borrowed a 3-1/2" boring head. It was an ENCO brand. Wow, is it ever nice! Fit and finish is pretty, it is tight and smooth, a real pleasure to hold in your hand..... It also has a "sweep" feature.

tdmidget said:
The Encos were made in France

moonlight machine said:
I have one of the French made Enco boring / facing heads.

Smootz, wondering if the boring head you speak of was this one, sold by Ralmikes? I was told it was made in France, and the same head was also sold by Enco years ago. Since you (and others) speak so well of it I'm anxious to give it a go soon. I have never used it. It came w/ the Bridgeport I got last year. I have 3 other boring heads, all smaller that I've always used.

Boring Hd Pic 1
Boring Hd Pic 2
Boring Hd Pic 3

Andy St · Dec 31, 2009

Scottie
I think the boring head you were using was a Gamet. They were made in France and sold / rebadged by ENCO. I have one of the smaller ones.
Andy

L Vanice · Dec 31, 2009

I too bought an Enco boring/facing head with R8 shank new around 1975. It says France on it and is beautifully made. I agree that it was actually made by Gamet. If you are buying from a picture, the French ones have a nice wood case with molded Styrofoam inserts for the tools.

More recently, I bought an Enco boring/facing head on eBay that looked just like mine, but had the travel stops. It says India on it and is a near exact copy of the French ones. Looks OK, but I have not used it.

Larry

smootz · Dec 31, 2009

morsetaper2 [url=http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=71&pictureid=375 said:
Bridgeport[/url]

Yep - That one is it, even the same box and boring bars. It sure is a sweet tool. And yes, I did mean "facing".

What does one have to buy today to get that kind of quality?

SCOTTIE

morsetaper2 · Dec 31, 2009

smootz said:
What does one have to buy today to get that kind of quality?

SCOTTIE

Avoid buying anything chinese and you might get that quality. But it means paying for that quality. The chinese (importers) just want to sell you the cheapest garbage they can.

It sure seems to be true that the Chinese can't compete on a similar quality level? You know they can produce quality. They have a space program. But on the Intl market, they don't seem to be competitive when it comes to selling quality goods.

mflywheel · Jan 2, 2010

morsetaper2 said:
Avoid buying anything chinese and you might get that quality. But it means paying for that quality. The chinese (importers) just want to sell you the cheapest garbage they can.

It sure seems to be true that the Chinese can't compete on a similar quality level? You know they can produce quality. They have a space program. But on the Intl market, they don't seem to be competitive when it comes to selling quality goods.

Ok, the Chinese make crap everything. But, the Indian made products are OK. Right?

swarf_rat · Jan 2, 2010

I had an Enco head that looked exactly like the one pictured, purchased in about 1982. But it was made in China. So somewhere between the mid 70s and early 80s, they switched sources from Gamet to Nameless China for these heads.

By the way, Enco became an outlet for cheap Chinese junk long before they were bought by MSC. What MSC has done is make them almost exclusively a Chinese junk dealer, at now non-discount pricing. Eliminating the discount competition has allowed MSC to increase their pricing even further. I have recent examples of USA sourced parts (Dorian) quoted by MSC at 50% above the manufacturers suggested retail price. So I bought them from KBC at MSRP.

morsetaper2 · Jan 2, 2010

mflywheel said:
Ok, the Chinese make crap everything. But, the Indian made products are OK. Right?

No, my point was the Chinese can make quality items, but the cost does not seem competitive w/ the rest of the world. Otherwise their would be lots of chinese products in the more expensive (read high quality) market segments. But that doesn't seem to happen.

You only see chinese products in the lowest cost market segments, because thats what US importers seem to only be able to (or want to) sell here. The Chinese have a space program and a hefty military. So they have got to be able to make quality products, they just seem to only send the low end garbage over.

I'm willing to bet you can buy high quality chinese tooling. It just costs more.

moonlight machine · Jan 2, 2010

Yeah, the enco boring / facing head I have was made by Gamet. I also have a Narex, made in Czechoslovakia. Also a very nice piece. For more heavy duty use I have a big old Bridgeport boring head. It does not face but takes a 3/4" bar so it is pretty heavy duty. Watch e bay, the stuff comes up for sale pretty often.

precision tools · Jan 2, 2010

L Vanice said:
I too bought an Enco boring/facing head with R8 shank new around 1975. It says France on it and is beautifully made. I agree that it was actually made by Gamet. If you are buying from a picture, the French ones have a nice wood case with molded Styrofoam inserts for the tools.

More recently, I bought an Enco boring/facing head on eBay that looked just like mine, but had the travel stops. It says India on it and is a near exact copy of the French ones. Looks OK, but I have not used it.

Larry

I have had both the French and Indian Enco boring heads, and, while they look the same externally, internally they are quite different. The Indian version internals are not machined or finished to anywhere near the quality of the French Gamet version.

I currently have a French Enco available, I will list it in the For Sale forum.

smootz · Jan 2, 2010

I see the name " Criterion" a lot.

They cost more than imports, is the quality comparable to the Gamet?

SCOTTIE

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