Carbide vs Tungsten Carbide in tool realm

pcm81 · Jun 15, 2017

I realize that there are different techniques for binding carbide into a final tool shape, however by question is on a lower chemistry level.

Carbide by it's strict definition is a binary compound of carbon with a lower electro-negativity element. So in theory there are many types of carbide: boron carbide, calcium carbide, tungsten carbide etc.

My question is this: In tool world, including scraper blades as well as blanks on ebay are all things labelled "Carbide" likely to be tungsten carbide, or are there more carbides than just tungsten carbide that are popular in machining world? Anything specific to pay attention to when buying carbide blanks to use as scraper blades?

Thanks ahead

CarbideBob · Jun 15, 2017

In the tool world "carbide" is mostly Tungsten Carbide (WC) sintered with cobalt as a glue to hold it together.
Straight grades (C1, C2, C3, C4) are tungsten carbide. There may be some slight others inside as many are made with reclaim powder.
Higher numbers have less glue and lower "toughness". Lower number are softer since more of the product is glue.
(Don't ask about grain size :willy_nilly:

)

C5 through C9 are alloyed grades containing titanium carbide, niobium carbide, tantalum carbide and a few others also in varying percentages.
Each added for certain characteristics and often only 1 to 5 percent of each.
These are also know as "steel cutting grades" while the C1-C4 numbers are sometimes called "cast iron and/or aluminum" grades.
C-8 or 9 may be 25% or more TiC so pushing a cermet.

Grades above C-9 are special use and mostly straights. You see them in hammers, dies and such.
Scraper blades are usually straight C-2.
Bob

pcm81 · Jun 15, 2017

CarbideBob said:
In the tool world "carbide" is mostly Tungsten Carbide (WC) sintered with cobalt as a glue to hold it together.
Straight grades (C1, C2, C3, C4) are tungsten carbide. There may be some slight others inside as many are made with reclaim powder.
Higher numbers have less glue and lower "toughness". Lower number are softer since more of the product is glue. (Don't ask about grain size )
C5 through C9 are alloyed grades containing titanium carbide, niobium carbide, tantalum carbide and a few others also in varying percentages.
Each added for certain characteristics and often only 1 to 5 percent of each.

Grades above C-9 are special use and mostly straights. You see them in hammers, dies and such.
Scraper blades are usually straight C-2.
Bob

Thank you for a informative reply.

Mechanola · Jun 15, 2017

Tungsten, with a capital, is a Swedish word. It means heavy stone. The u in tung is a unique vowel to Swedish, it sounds somewhat like the u in burn and the e in sten is a longer e similar to that in men but lighter.

CarbideBob · Jun 15, 2017

Ok, I'll play...... Wolfram Carbide. Hence WC.
Now why Wolf on the base? How is W=tungsten???
Where did this come from?
Bob

sfriedberg · Jun 15, 2017

CarbideBob said:
How is W=tungsten??? Where did this come from?
Bob

Lots of stuff in this complaint by some chemists to the "official" chemistry naming body.

TLDR: Historical usage in a variety of other languages.

Bill D · Jun 15, 2017

I see a problem with "carbon" fiber. Seems to be be any carbon compound fiber with resin. just not glass fiber.
I was surprised when I found out it was not carbon but a carbon compound. I was thinking it was some low grade diamond or graphite bonded with resin.
Bill D

CarlBoyd · Jun 15, 2017

CarbideBob said:
Ok, I'll play...... Wolfram Carbide. Hence WC.
Now why Wolf on the base? How is W=tungsten???
Where did this come from?
Bob

Same way that lead is Pb, there are other languages in the world than English.

If I remember Wolfram is German.

CarlBoyd

michiganbuck · Jun 15, 2017

Carbide is the stuff that goes in miners lamps with a little water makes gas...

carbide for miners lamp - Google Search

pcm81 · Jun 15, 2017

CarlBoyd said:
Same way that lead is Pb, there are other languages in the world than English.

If I remember Wolfram is German.

CarlBoyd

Symbols in periodic table, most of the time, come from Latin names of the elements. Lead in Latin is "Plumbum" hence symbol "Pb". Gold is "Aurum", hence "Au". More recent discoveries on new elements, it is the research group that discovers a new element that gets to name it.

Wild West · Jun 15, 2017

CarbideBob said:
In the tool world "carbide" is mostly Tungsten Carbide (WC) sintered with cobalt as a glue to hold it together.
Straight grades (C1, C2, C3, C4) are tungsten carbide. There may be some slight others inside as many are made with reclaim powder.
Higher numbers have less glue and lower "toughness". Lower number are softer since more of the product is glue.
(Don't ask about grain size )

C5 through C9 are alloyed grades containing titanium carbide, niobium carbide, tantalum carbide and a few others also in varying percentages.
Each added for certain characteristics and often only 1 to 5 percent of each.
These are also know as "steel cutting grades" while the C1-C4 numbers are sometimes called "cast iron and/or aluminum" grades.
C-8 or 9 may be 25% or more TiC so pushing a cermet.

Grades above C-9 are special use and mostly straights. You see them in hammers, dies and such.
Scraper blades are usually straight C-2.
Bob

Well, you certainly live up to your name! Thanks! Good post!

Ralphxyz · Jun 22, 2017

Bob that was absolutely the most intelligent, informative reply to a question I have ever seen. I used to participate in groups on usenet so I have been around for a while and seen a lot of post but I have been so well informed.

Ralph

TeachMePlease · Jun 23, 2017

Ralphxyz said:
Bob that was absolutely the most intelligent, informative reply to a question I have ever seen. I used to participate in groups on usenet so I have been around for a while and seen a lot of post but I have been so well informed.

Ralph

Welcome to PM... You will learn that there are some frequently posting members who have forgotten more than you (I) will ever know, about things you (I) didn't even know existed/were possible (CarbideBob, BobW,Ries, Zahnrad Knopf, TonyTn36, WheelieKing, AngelW, and many others I can't name right now, apologies for not naming them specifically, but they know who they are) and will happily share all of that information in an intelligent, concise manner...

You will also find that we have blowhards who proclaim to know more than all of the pros COMBINED, and wax rhapsodic about things they don't actually know about.

And we have a lot of members who are pretty good at a lot of stuff, and make pretty good posts about that stuff, that you can learn a lot from.

After a few weeks here, you learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I personally fall into the second category, mainly, but I try to be helpful in the areas I know really well.

If you thought CarbideBob's reply about carbides was helpful, you should ask BobW about Fadal machines. He's got (awesome) pictures!

CarlBoyd · Jun 24, 2017

camscan said:
You, young whipper snapper,are looking for a good slapping.

I will be 60 in January.

CarlBoyd

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