need source for thin copper and asbestos (or asbestos like) gasket material

Cismontguy · Oct 31, 2012

We have a project that requires some custom made copper and asbestos exhaust gasket material. I have searched Mcmaster-Carr and MSC and a dozen other internet listings but cannot seem to find any of this gasket material any more? We are not looking to mass produce these parts in China or India. We just need to make some new ones for this single project.

Anyone have any ideas for a source?

Thanks,

Cismontguy

mfgbydesign · Oct 31, 2012

we use a material called Fiberfrax which is a ceramic fiber as an asbestos substitute.

WizardOfBoz · Oct 31, 2012

Most European countries and Australia and NZ have banned asbestos outright. Finding asbestos in the US is probably going to be pretty hard. The website "asbestos.com" is not run by an asbestos supplier (if there are any), it's run by the mesothelioma center. So I'm not sure if anyone even supplies it today.

tdmidget · Oct 31, 2012

Are you looking for copper gaskets and asbestos gaskets or a gasket of a combination of the two? I don't think I have ever seen a combination of the two unless in layers, like a head gasket.

Cismontguy · Oct 31, 2012

Thanks for the replies, the original material we are replacing is a sandwich of two layers of thin copper with some kind of asbestos material in the middle. I realize it maybe impossible to find the exact material, and that is OK. Just looking for a source for the copper and (fill in the blank with an asbestos replacement material) sheet. You can order Asbestos sheet in commercial quantity from India or China, but we need a sheet, maybe 6" x 24" by roughly 0.040" to 0.05" thick.

Cismontguy

johnoder · Oct 31, 2012

You used to be able to get Durabla Black from Canada.

RDL · Oct 31, 2012

Cismontguy said:
... You can order Asbestos sheet in commercial quantity from India or China, but we need a sheet, maybe 6" x 24" by roughly 0.040" to 0.05" thick. Cismontguy

It might be possible to order it but that does not mean that Customs will allow it into the country.

I use a thicker ceramic Kawl Paper from High Temperature Insulation | Thermal Insulation Products .

I have also used glass paper which is thinner than fiberglass mat and the fibers are better bonded together.

Raymond

magneticanomaly · Oct 31, 2012

I have had two different types of high-temperature home-made gaskets running successfully on an old tractor for several years,now.

One is multiple layers of ordinary aluminum foil. Others also must have made the observatio nthat Al foil "burned" in a fire retains its original volume and appearance, although it is mostly converted to oxide. I have a wad of perhaps 30 layers of ordinary foil serving as gasket between exhaust manifold and muffler on this tractor. This joint runs at over 800 deg F. (glows faintly at night)

My homemade exhaust-manifold-to-cylinder-head gasket is IIRC four layers of .020 copper, each VERY lightly smeared with high-temp silicone sealant before assembly. Others must also have observed that if you burn silicone rubber, you end up with a little more than the original volume of SiO2. The multiple copper sheets dissipate heat, and contain the Si rubber, whether intact or ashed, in pockets formed by the low spots i n the faying surfaces.

IME, the old copper-asbestos sandwich gaskets were always fragile and prone to weep until the asbestos absorbed enough gunk from the sealed medium.

My $.02, YMMV

Mike72 · Oct 31, 2012

This is one of the materials that replaced asbestos in gaskets around the 80's:

Victor Reinz Gasket Mineral Board 1 16" x 10" x 36" | eBay

Another material used is:
- GrafTech

The mineral board was a fill sandwiched between copper . One piece of the copper sheet was flanged and this flange fit the ID of the mineral board and another piece of copper that was then closed together in a die.

Grafoil makes a excellent flange gasket for exhaust systems alone or even better with a copper or stainless ring closed around the ID.

John Madarasz · Oct 31, 2012

Cismontguy said:
Thanks for the replies, the original material we are replacing is a sandwich of two layers of thin copper with some kind of asbestos material in the middle. I realize it maybe impossible to find the exact material, and that is OK. Just looking for a source for the copper and (fill in the blank with an asbestos replacement material) sheet. You can order Asbestos sheet in commercial quantity from India or China, but we need a sheet, maybe 6" x 24" by roughly 0.040" to 0.05" thick.

Cismontguy

What size finished size copper sheet do you need. What is the quantity of pieces, and what is the thickness of the copper?

PhilGarbarini · Oct 31, 2012

Hello from Bedford VA.

Did you try Seals & Gaskets . O-Rings . Roanoke, VA . Richmond, VA . Rock Hill, SC . Cardinal Rubber & Seal, Inc. in Roanoke?

Ask for Scott Munsey

charlie gary · Oct 31, 2012

Can't help with the asbestos part, but this place can hook you up with the copper.
Online Metal Store | Small Quantity Metal Orders | Metal Cutting, Sales & Shipping | Buy Steel, Aluminum, Copper, Brass, Stainless | Metal Product Guides at OnlineMetals.com

BobRenz · Oct 31, 2012

You may also be able to use copper shim stock. McMaster probably has something that will work a lot cheaper than trying to order from a metal supplier.

Leadfootin · Oct 31, 2012

Olsons gaskets olsonsgaskets.com in Washington State, 360-871-1207
Specialize in old engine gaskets and should be able to supply or advise on anything you need. They are my preferred supplier for head gaskets on my Rolls-Royce engines, sealing better than the OEM gaskets.

Peter

J Henricksen · Oct 31, 2012

Check you in box, PM sent

Georgineer · Nov 1, 2012

My feeling is that this is all too compicated. I believe the main reason the manufacturers used copper and asbestos sandwich was to keep the cost down, which doesn't sound like a serious issue in this case. My memory says that in classic car circles a single thickness of annealed copper is used, which can be re-used with care as often as wanted, unlike the asbestos sandwiches. Is there any reason for not using a plain copper gasket?

George

vettedude · Nov 1, 2012

This is good advice, go with some sort of grafoil like material, it has a melting temp of like 5000 C and is a great sealant.

Mike72 · Nov 1, 2012

Georgineer said:
My feeling is that this is all too compicated. I believe the main reason the manufacturers used copper and asbestos sandwich was to keep the cost down, which doesn't sound like a serious issue in this case. My memory says that in classic car circles a single thickness of annealed copper is used, which can be re-used with care as often as wanted, unlike the asbestos sandwiches. Is there any reason for not using a plain copper gasket?

George

Are talking about copper/asbestos head gaskets on older engines? If you saw the set of dies needed to produce one you would instantly know the manufactures were not taking the cheap route. What they were doing was making a reliable gasket that would seal against hot compression gases,hot antifreeze/water and hot oil, not an easy task with the materials available at the time. Today there are better materials but still a ton of technology goes into producing a reliable head gasket. Plain embossed and annealed copper was used on some low compression engines but would not last long with higher compression ratios. The introduction of the fire ring and the use of stainless steel flanges really helped to increase the reliability of head gaskets on high compression engines.

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