Chances of finding old Barber Colman Gear Hob blueprints / drawings?

Spend the better part of the day going through the BC3, tuning, adjusting, and general maintenance things. There's a few things I have done over the years to make things the way I like them, being a bit particular in how I do things some times. To that end, there are some things that I still want/need to do.

Thinking on that, I wondered about the general possibility of finding some of the things I want to modify as spare parts and working from there, but then wondered about simply finding or gaining access to the old Barber Colman blueprints or drawings.

I know people like Hendeyman, John Oder, and VersaMill Brian are treasure troves of some of the other machine makers, but I wonder if anyone has any of this for the old Barber Colman Gear Hobs?

Anyone have any idea? Thanks.
( and for the record, yes I know one can purchase parts priced in the stratosphericly stupid realm from both B&K and RPI )

Maybe MeshingWithGears.com can help with that. Worth a look, if you don't know about it already. Highbrow gearhead site, with a few extra resources.

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check these guys out. They specialize in Gear machines.
Used Gear Machines Gear Hobbers Gear Grinders Gear Machinery Gear Shapers Shavers

RP machines prices are beyond absurd.

Mebfab said:

RP machines prices are beyond absurd.

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Agreed. There's a reason we make our own Hob Arbors. I can literally make them for 1/4 - 1/3 of what anyone wants to sell them for. It's beyond stupid.

And more importantly, I can make them with improvements from the OEM design. I originally started making them the old BC way/style, but over time came to see the benefit and usefulness of making them like Koepfer arbors, so have adapted how I make them. Makes changing or adjusting Hobs SO much easier and quicker.

The webbing sleeves in the picture are four of the arbors I've made. We have 7 in total. Ideally, I'd like to find prints for things like Work Center mechanisms ( various styles ) and maybe even the Differential Option. There are other parts as well, that I'd like to make modified versions of but it would be nice to know what the original design was so I can see if there are any concerns to avoid or accommodate.

These guys used to work for Barber Coleman and are in the building next door to the old Barber Coleman plant that

Repair Parts, Inc. - Main Page

also the company formed with several companies: Fellows Machinery Replacement Parts

WJR- just had a pattern and core box made for the cover for the hob spindle drive gears for a #3 / 6-10. Seems every #3 in the world had that cover tossed in the corner or worse. As far as part prints, Bourne and Koch got all the Barber Colman documentation as far as I know. Chances of getting any of that without loosing an arm and a leg is probably pretty slim.
I bought a manual from them 25 years ago and they had a very expensive copy machine even back then. Dan

Richard King said:

These guys used to work for Barber Coleman and are in the building next door to the old Barber Coleman plant that Repair Parts, Inc. - Main Page also the company formed with several companies: Fellows Machinery Replacement Parts

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Thanks Richard. I appreciate the effort to be of assistance. I think you may have missed the part of my original post that said,

Zahnrad Kopf said:

( and for the record, yes I know one can purchase parts priced in the stratosphericly stupid realm from both B&K and RPI )

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In the interest of thoroughness I will touch base with them again, but I'm not holding my breathe due to past experiences.

Dan from Oakland said:

WJR- just had a pattern and core box made for the cover for the hob spindle drive gears for a #3 / 6-10. Seems every #3 in the world had that cover tossed in the corner or worse. As far as part prints, Bourne and Koch got all the Barber Colman documentation as far as I know. Chances of getting any of that without loosing an arm and a leg is probably pretty slim.
I bought a manual from them 25 years ago and they had a very expensive copy machine even back then. Dan

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LMAO! Yeah... they're pretty proud of their "services". Frankly, I think it's part of the reason that so many machines went to the scrap yards. I think if companies had a source for repair parts that didn't cost the price of a whole machine they may have actually kept them running and making gears. My own experiences with Hob Arbors is a PRIME example.

Admittedly, others are not much different. Koepfer is AMAZINGLY proud of their change gears... ( Quoted $1500.00 for a 67T gear )

Color me lucky. Our #3 still has the Hob Spindle Drive Gear Cover, and in tact! LOL. I think many people removed them trying to get more clearance over the ways...

By chance, would you happen to have a parts list and/or pictures of a Differential option? I'm also looking for a few examples of the various Work Centers used over the years. I have an idea to make a slightly different one that's more friendly to the type of work we primarily do, but don't need to reinvent the wheel if it's not necessary.

Thanks.

B&K actually owns B-C along with a bunch of other companies they bought for the parts business. B&K also just sold out to Allegheny Capital, so I doubt prices will be going down. We've got some stuff from them and if you think they are high, you need some W&S stuff.
JR

Richard King said:

These guys used to work for Barber Coleman and are in the building next door to the old Barber Coleman plant that
Repair Parts, Inc. - Main Page also the company formed with several companies: Fellows Machinery Replacement Parts

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Zahnrad Kopf said:

In the interest of thoroughness I will touch base with them again, but I'm not holding my breathe due to past experiences.

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Yeah... I was just reminded of exactly why that was such a bad idea. Called and was as pleasant as a serf at the mercy of the King's audience. Nothing like someone trying to make you feel like an asshole for not wanting to pay exorbitant prices or purchase a whole machine for parts then and suggesting you don't really know what goes into gear making. I mean this from the bottom of my heart - F^ck RPI.

EDIT - For the record, they don't have any prints and never saw any. Uh-huh...

Zahnrad Kopf said:

Admittedly, others are not much different. Koepfer is AMAZINGLY proud of their change gears... ( Quoted $1500.00 for a 67T gear )

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Sorry to hear that. The vice-president at Koepfer once sent me a complete set of blueprints for an obsolete machine, in original size, complete parts list and more, bound in a binder and FedExed to me, the day before christmas... for free. Just because I asked. I am still grateful for that, many years later. Thank you, Armin Wacker. They have my loyalty for that. (but thankfully i don't need to buy any change gears. 1500 bucks, ouch...)

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Dr. Rob said:

Sorry to hear that. The vice-president at Koepfer once sent me a complete set of blueprints for an obsolete machine, in original size, complete parts list and more, bound in a binder and FedExed to me, the day before christmas... for free. Just because I asked. I am still grateful for that, many years later. Thank you, Armin Wacker. They have my loyalty for that. (but thankfully i don't need to buy any change gears. 1500 bucks, ouch...)

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That is very impressive, Dr. Rob. In all fairness, I was dealing with the US representative, and not Europe. And don't think for a minute I followed through with that. It was an attempt to save some time and money for a job that needed to be finished up. My thinking was that if it could be ordered easily enough and quickly enough, that I would spend the few days wait doing other jobs and it would be a win-win. Once I heard the price, I hung up, prepped some stock, and made one up faster than Herr Wacker could say "gesundheit". I always make it a point to stock the correct hob for any change gears in the shop for exactly this reason.

Hi Zahnrad
Could I ask about the collet holder in your picture above? Is is an ER or 5C? And did you make it? I'd really like to make or buy one for myself.

Thanks,

Rick

rjibosh said:

Hi Zahnrad
Could I ask about the collet holder in your picture above? Is is an ER or 5C? And did you make it? I'd really like to make or buy one for myself. Thanks, Rick

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Rick,

Yes, of course you may ask. Doesn't mean that I'll answer, but you can ask. Kidding. Snarky mood after my call to RPI...


It's an ER40, and yes, I made it. Progression of idea here - http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/er40-chuck-b-s-9-tail-295745/
I keep a work stop in the spindle, as well but it is obscured from view by the chuck. Happy to answer any questions you might have.