Cheap tapping oil/grease (engine oil, bearing grease)? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    I buy Dark Thread cutting oil from the local hardware store. It is the same oil they use for pipe threading machines. 1 quart of oil will last me 5 years. Oil is cheaper than buying replacement taps. If you distroy your taps and distroy your parts with broken off taps oil is much cheaper than reworking parts and buying new taps. Be sure to buy DARK thread cutting OIL. Last time I bought a quart from Ace Hardware it was $5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gary350 View Post
    I buy Dark Thread cutting oil from the local hardware store. It is the same oil they use for pipe threading machines. 1 quart of oil will last me 5 years. Oil is cheaper than buying replacement taps. If you distroy your taps and distroy your parts with broken off taps expensive oil is much cheaper than reworking parts and buying new taps.
    Me too. I use it to cut threads on the lathe in steel, that's what it's formulated for and works very well, you can smell the high sulpher content. I buy the quart plastic bottles with the vertical-arc valve/nozzle and use as is, perfect applicator on lathe O.D. work. Have some in a long-spout oilcan for I.D. work, especially grooving.

    Bob

  3. #43
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    hand tapping what? lots of good suggestions here, but i havent seen a mention of moly-d. i dont use it unless i have to, its kinda nasty like sulfuretted cutting oil, maybe worse, but when it comes to tough stuff, it has been helpful.. small threads that would break taps trying to float the "bridgeport" spindle in p20 steel tapped well with moly-d, and in another case i had big (for a "bridgeport") threads both standard and taper pipe, both about 1.25 dia, maybe bigger on the pipe thd, in a 400 stainless if i remember right, tried it with the machine, uh uh. tried it with a big tap wrench, 24" span by hand, cutting oil, couldnt turn it. moly-d and i was able to hand tap both, tho still tough. nice looking threads too.

    .

  4. #44
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    Will velocite #3 work

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    On stuff like aluminum, I always use WD-40 if I don't have the Molly-D handy. Pretty much WD-40 on most everything that just needs something to keep the chips from sticking, and Molly-D for harder stuff like stainless, etc.

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    I had read somewhere once that used diesel oil was to be preferred for general this kind of use because it would end up with sulfur in it from the diesel... now that they took the sulfur out I would assume that doesn't apply anymore.

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    I have a general question here: If I use bacon grease, ham fat, lard, or similar natural fats/oils, what is the best way to clean off the residue when finished? I tried soap and water and it hardly did a thing, so I stick with petroleum based fluids now, but I would like to try "lard oil" again.

    Thanks,

    LM

  8. #48
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    Alcohol or acetone... take your pick.

  9. #49
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    For a test, I used rigid cutting oil, anchor lube , and nothing on a .500 aluminum plate tapping 1/2-13 holes. Test were done on a tapping jig machine. Saw zero difference and felt no difference .
    Cleaned tap between each run.

    My .02 keep the chips clear is more important.

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    We had an old bottle of tap magic that I absolutely loved. Not such a fan of the new bottles we have. It still works better than nothing when tapping. If you drill with it anywhere near the bit the new stuff smells absolutely terrible.

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    I am aware of why you should never use lubricating oils for tapping, only cutting fluids, and how it helps metal deflect around cutting edges of the tap and thus binding the tap in the hole. However, I find used motor oil fantastic for tapping. The blacker the better. I believe it's the carbon particles that help cutting, and I find it's on par with Cool Tool 2.

    Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmikkalson View Post
    For a test, I used rigid cutting oil, anchor lube , and nothing on a .500 aluminum plate tapping 1/2-13 holes. Test were done on a tapping jig machine. Saw zero difference and felt no difference .
    Cleaned tap between each run.

    My .02 keep the chips clear is more important.
    Aluminum? No big deal. Now try stainless or hot rolled.

    Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

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    I am afraid to even try to tap holes without cutting fluid/oil.

    -- too many broken taps in my youth. :-(

    Also, most of my tapping is 4-40 to 10-32, and those taps are much easier to break.

    LM

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    Necro-thread alert - I hit "like" on one of the early posts in this thread, only to realize that it was 5 years old!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderedge View Post
    Aluminum? No big deal. Now try stainless or hot rolled.

    Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk
    Ok, curious now.

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    The magical ingredient that Tap Magic had before it was phased out due to environmental considerations was trichloroethane. This made it smell like cinnamon and aided tapping because of the cooling that was caused by rapid evaporation of this ingredient. The modern Tap Magic is pretty boring as a tapping aid.

    What causes dark cutting oil to work is that it inhibits chips from welding to the cutting edges of the tap. Oils with sulfur, and other animal and vegetable fats prevent chip weld, and thereby let you use a tap without chip weld interference. The cooling effect caused by evaporation of trichloroethane also prevented chip weld. Lubricating oils do not work because they don't have sulfur, and do not prevent chip weld.

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    People make way too big of a deal out of tapping fluids.

    The most important things by far are the quality of the tap, the size and straightness of the hole and the tap being inline with the hole. No fancy cutting fluid will fix those things if they're not right.

    Most hobby type guys break taps and have a hard time because of the things I listed, not the god damn cutting fluid.

    A zillion holes get tapped every day in CNCs with shit ass water soluble oil. Only in nasty materials will you see better oil applied. Water soluble oil is usually about 90-95% water.

    I tap dry all the time with a frictin tap in a cordless drill. If the tap is shitty, I'll lube it. I usually lube steel. We only use machine shop quality taps.

    You are insane if you use lard or whatever else bullshit biodegradable product. It's not 1850, we have oils that don't rot.

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  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Nelson View Post
    The magical ingredient that Tap Magic had before it was phased out due to environmental considerations was trichloroethane. This made it smell like cinnamon and aided tapping because of the cooling that was caused by rapid evaporation of this ingredient.
    Tap magic show a "Vegetable Oil" component with a CAS number 8007-80-5 which Googles out to "Cassia Bark Oil" AKA Dutch Cinnamon. Up to forty percent is methyl laurate which is typically made from coconut oil and the remainder is kerosene CAS 8008-20-6.

    https://www.hswalsh.com/sites/default/files/related_files/TB994638%20-%20Tap%20Magic%20MSDS.pdf



    I agree with your comments about Sulphur, it reacts with the fresh metal surfaces and forms extreme pressure lubricant compounds similar to molybdenum disulphide or tungsten disulphide with the raw metal surfaces.

    If anyone is interested, I've worked out a chemical reaction to get sulphur to form a concentrated stable solution that can be added 10% to old hydraulic/mineral/paraffin oil to make dark sulphurized cutting oil. Testing has been done on drilling 316 and also reaming 304 and it works fine. Initially the recipe needed some fine tuning due to solids forming but now it seems to stay in solution quite well. Sulphurizing beef lard makes a bright orange solid that lubricates taps going into 316 really well and my next target is going to be sulphurizing coconut oil as it's up to 98% saturated fat and is a solid around room temps of 24 deg C.

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  21. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Nelson View Post
    The magical ingredient that Tap Magic had before it was phased out due to environmental considerations was trichloroethane. This made it smell like cinnamon
    I see SAG 180 issued a more detailed reply. My note is simply that Trichloroethane does NOT smell like cinnamon. It does smell similar to a number of other chlorinated solvent relatives like methylene chloride, ethylene dichloride, and the like.

  22. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by specfab View Post
    I see SAG 180 issued a more detailed reply. My note is simply that Trichloroethane does NOT smell like cinnamon. It does smell similar to a number of other chlorinated solvent relatives like methylene chloride, ethylene dichloride, and the like.
    I just searched the internet for a description of the smell of trichloroethane. The three articles that described the smell as a sweet smell. No further comparison was made. As a machinist who has considerable experience with this chemical, both as a degreaser for electrical equipment, and as a major ingredient of Tap Magic before it was banned. To me, it smelled like cinnamon.


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