Chuck Jaws “hardened” but I can file ‘em...

How important is jaw hardness on a general use 4 jaw?

(I’m afraid my question is quite dumb)

I’m only doing hillbilly hardness testing, as in using a file on inconspicuous corners of a jaw.

My Bernurd chucks, Cushman & Bison jaws don’t hardly budge.

This new foolish purchase (Phase II) Chinese chuck allows the file to cut. Not easily, but noticeable.

can you send it back?

Those SUCK...will not hold straight,the adjusting screws crack, and they run out of balance at any real speed...at least that's my experience...funny thing is there are much better chucks that are cheaper.

It is important that the threads on the bottom of a 4-jaw chuck jaw are strong. In steel, strong equates to hard, but also to brittle at the extreme end of hard. A file is strong and hardened to the maximum, which is also the brittle state, so you can break a file. Chuck jaws may be tempered somewhat to reduce brittleness, leaving them a bit softer than a good file. They may still be strong enough for reasonable service. Or not. If the jaw threads are relatively soft, they will deform when you put a pipe on the chuck key handle to get the jaws (too) tight. The side keys on the jaws and the mating keys machined into the chuck body also should be strong for the same reason.

I have seen USA 4-jaw chucks with the threads broken off the jaw bottoms, the brittle fracture showing that they were hardened to the max. That sort of failure usually occurs when the jaws are backed part way out of the body, leaving just the innermost jaw threads engaged with the screw. Put the pipe on the key and lean on it and snap go the jaw threads. I have also seen Buck 3-jaw chucks with the cast iron body cracked at the outer end of the jaw slots. That damage was also caused when the jaws were partly outside of the body and the key cranked down very hard. The Buck jaws are stronger than the body, so I have not seen a broken Buck jaw.

Larry

Jaw hardness is important to keep from bell mouthing the jaws on jobs where you might only be grabbing onto something by 1/4 to 1/2". Even hard jaws will wear into this condition eventually, and need to be trued up with a reboring pass once in a while. So for an occasional user, the moderately hard (over-tempered) jaws might serve well enough. If they are dead soft, expect to rework them often.

Send them back say you have had them tested and they are below spec.Make sure they agree to refund any postage or your going to give them bad feedback on as many sites as you can get access to.Chinese junk

Thanks for the info so far. Very helpful.
I have issued a return, and I’m going to buy the Bison 10” 4 jaw D1-6 direct mount.

The BTC is a good chuck and can be had for a fraction of the Bison price in that size direct mount d1-6
And has 2 pice jaws...always a plus.

For accuracy and smooth operation the jaws and screws must bee hardened. There is such a thing as "soft jaws" that can be modified or trued for a specific job, but those are always bolted to the hardened bases. Many Asian imports are of low quality and not worth their low price. One is much better spending the same amount of money on a used quality product.

iwananew10K said:

The BTC is a good chuck and can be had for a fraction of the Bison price in that size direct mount d1-6
And has 2 pice jaws...always a plus.

Click to expand...

BTC is Chinese, as is Gator. I understand they are the products of China's two largest chuck factories. I know nothing bad about either brand. I don't know what Chinese factory makes the Phase II, Shars, etc. chucks. It may be that price is an indication of quality, but some sellers ask more than others for the same stuff, muddying the issue.

Two-piece jaws are less common on independent 4-jaw chucks, but I have seen them. The jaws on independent 4-jaw chucks are always reversible, but there could be an application for soft top jaws on such a chuck.

I have a NIB set of one-piece blank soft jaws for an old Burnerd-built Hardinge 3-jaw chuck. The scroll teeth are hard and the top portions are soft enough to bore out. Not a common thing, but obviously was done.

Larry

For balance sake I had to say that we've had good long experience with a Phase II 8" chuck that came with my first gearhead lathe, a Takisawa.

The last chuck I bought was a bison, but have also new Gater and another, Vertex. They both seem to be very high quality chucks.

L Vanice said:

I don't know what Chinese factory makes the Phase II, Shars, etc. chucks.

Click to expand...

There's the problem with all these products .... the seller does not make the stuff. They don't have a factory. So when Joe was president they cared about quality and bought from the more expensive supplier. But Joe got pushed out by his nephew Bill who promised the family he could make more money. And he did - by buying cheaper stuff and skipping quality control. Then it's not "what factory makes it ?" but "who can make it cheapest this month ?"

You can pretty well guess the end of this story

There's the problem with all these products .... the seller does not make the stuff.

Click to expand...

#1 flaw I see in your statement, how many chucks made in Europe or the USA did you buy direct from whomever made their products? Most products made in America have dealerships awarded by some standards agreed upon.

#2 you also implied that there are no builders in China (I assume you also meant Taiwan) who have carried standards, I reject the premise. Being copiers of designs of other nations should provide the long term business model of holding quality standards as yet another good Western concept, and, I gotta say this, I'm seeing way too much planned obsolescence out of some Western manufacturing. I hope it takes China and Taiwan a very very long time to learn that you can use advertising to convince people they need something they don't, the drop the price 1X and the cost of production by any means including dropping materials costs 2X amount. Trade off a name over a hundred years old by stamping their names on a piece of junk and run to other shores to spend it. I really see this in firearms manufacturing.

Now let me add a caveat, If there are cultural business practices that cannot be changed then I take most of it back, I saw a video about homes in large Chinese cities that were poorly built 40 years ago, and the new buildings are being built the same crappy way today, and no one seems to be disturbed by it. People share a building full of owned apartments and no one will break down to replace a $.20 light bulb in a hallway.

No, I've never been to the projects, but that's a government thing, these are capitalists like myself who would rather walk in the dark than add a gift of a light bulb to fix a problem because they don't think it's fair that the other rich people in other apartments won't do it. If that is a cultural deficiency than you may be right.

partsproduction said:

#1 flaw I see in your statement, how many chucks made in Europe or the USA did you buy direct from whomever made their products? Most products made in America have dealerships awarded by some standards agreed upon.

Click to expand...

Manufacturers have dealers but a Buck chuck is still made by Buck. As of today, anyhow ...

Phase II isn't a dealer, they pretend to be a factory but all they do is buy stuff.

#2 you also implied that there are no builders in China (I assume you also meant Taiwan) who have carried standards, I reject the premise. Being copiers of designs of other nations should provide the long term business model of holding quality standards as yet another good Western concept, and, I gotta say this, I'm seeing way too much planned obsolescence out of some Western manufacturing. I hope it takes China and Taiwan a very very long time to learn that you can use advertising to convince people they need something they don't, the drop the price 1X and the cost of production by any means including dropping materials costs 2X amount. Trade off a name over a hundred years old by stamping their names on a piece of junk and run to other shores to spend it. I really see this in firearms manufacturing.

Click to expand...

Umm, I would say that generally speaking China and Taiwan couldn't care less about delivering quality and they have no standards besides "how much money can we get ?" They need communism to control their natural cheapskate urges. The watered catsup joke is not without basis in fact.

There are the rare exceptions but making quality is not a Chinese value. Demanding quality is, but delivering it is not, if that makes sense.

I saw a video about homes in large Chinese cities that were poorly built 40 years ago, and the new buildings are being built the same crappy way today, and no one seems to be disturbed by it.

Click to expand...

A lot of people are disturbed by it but they will not pay enough money to get skilled people to do the work. But even if they were willing to pay, being "a worker" is so low on the social scale that they probably could not get anyone with an IQ over ten to do that kind of thing. The tradespeople are really bad. I mean really bad. As in, they install a new toilet then leave the old one in broken parts in the middle of your kitchen floor. And you consider yourself lucky they didn't drag it into the living room and dump it on the couch. And the new one still leaks.

People share a building full of owned apartments and no one will break down to replace a $.20 light bulb in a hallway.

Click to expand...

Yup. "Not my job to change that light bulb ! and who will pay me ?!" Talk about a country full of cheapskates.

No, I've never been to the projects, but that's a government thing, these are capitalists like myself who would rather walk in the dark than add a gift of a light bulb to fix a problem because they don't think it's fair that the other rich people in other apartments won't do it. If that is a cultural deficiency than you may be right.

Click to expand...

This was just a couple years ago in one of the biggest most modern cities in China. Brand new, luckily no one had moved in yet. "Better city better life" was the inspirational slogan that season .. And the best part, of course they are metric fasteners. I told you the metric system is no good



(It still amazes me how well the subway and trains work, tho. They did get that right.)