Cl levels in Coolant/ Waste Oil

Bmiley · Nov 17, 2017

Having an issue with our coolant/ waste oil from our 3 VMC which is baffling me.

For the past 2 years the lab reports for our waste oil and coolant disposal have come back with SUPER high levels of Cl which means they have to take the stuff in sealed drums and cannot suck it out with a vac truck. Its way more of a hassle with the drums and more expensive too.

Allowable levels are <1000 ppm, 2 years ago we were over 13000 and last month they measured over 9000. They say anything over 100 can cause corrosion on the machine and parts, which we do see.

I don’t understand where the chlorine (or chloride) is coming from. We started completely fresh two years ago so I don’t think there is any way the chlorine in the water has built up that much.

We use Trim E206 coolant, and Mobil Vactra way oil, occasionally spray things down with WD-40 but that’s really it.

Anybody else had similar issues? Trying to figure out what is causing it so hopefully we can make a change and keep the levels down.

gustafson · Nov 17, 2017

Is someone using tapping oil on particularly difficult parts?

Bmiley · Nov 17, 2017

gustafson said:
Is someone using tapping oil on particularly difficult parts?

That is a possibility. Our Sample was taken from probably ~300 gallons of coolant and oil. We go through maybe 1 quart of tapping fluid a year (mostly at the tapping machine) so could a very small amount of fluid add that much Cl?

DDoug · Nov 17, 2017

Someone dump some bleach into a sump ?
Or some pool tablets ?

Gobo · Nov 17, 2017

Are you on a well, or public water? Test your tap water. Use DI water on one machine, tap water on the others. Check it six months down the road. You might be surprised by how much chlorine is in public tap water.

Bmiley · Nov 17, 2017

digger doug said:
Someone dump some bleach into a sump ?
Or some pool tablets ?

Haha, thats the second thing I thought of (first was that the chlorine in the tap water had built up, but I did the math on that one and it would take more than my lifetime for that to happen) We dont keep any bleach in the shop so unless someone is sneaking in with a gallon of bleach at night I dont think that's it.

Bmiley · Nov 17, 2017

Gobo said:
Are you on a well, or public water? Test your tap water. Use DI water on one machine, tap water on the others. Check it six months down the road. You might be surprised by how much chlorine is in public tap water.

Public, Max allowed for Mass public supply is 4ppm, I looked up the town's most recent testing and it was around 1ppm. Tested with the test strips we have and it showed nothing, not the best test I know but if It was just from the water it would need to be in the hundreds ppm for it to accumulate to the measured level over the course of the year.

We dont have access to DI water, would have to buy it by the gallon which really isnt an option for our sump sizes. Testing through the lab that our waste vendor uses runs ~$200 so not really economical to run an experiment.

Wild West · Nov 17, 2017

Is mop water with a high detergent/chlorine level getting dumped in with the coolant.

Bmiley · Nov 17, 2017

Wild West said:
Is mop water with a high detergent/chlorine level getting dumped in with the coolant.

Hmmm, we might have a winner there. We occasionally have a spill or flood, not sure what the guys use to clean up the floor afterward and where it gets dumped, but thats definitely a possibility.

guest · Nov 17, 2017

I bet they are seeing the chlorine in the municipal water. I used to run into this all the time. There are different tests. A simple screen, or a more detailed analysis (that costs more) like a GCMS.

I would call them to come get the waste coolant, and they would say it had too much chlorine and needed special handling. Then I'd tell them to do the other test, and it would come back clean. The difference was like .50/gal vs. $5/gal to dispose of.

We had a pit furnace and quench tank for aluminum- you could stand next to the quench tank, it was like being in a municipal pool, the chlorine smell was so strong.

They can't call municipal water hazardous waste- get a better test.

Bmiley · Nov 17, 2017

guest said:
I bet they are seeing the chlorine in the municipal water. I used to run into this all the time. There are different tests. A simple screen, or a more detailed analysis (that costs more) like a GCMS.

I would call them to come get the waste coolant, and they would say it had too much chlorine and needed special handling. Then I'd tell them to do the other test, and it would come back clean. The difference was like .50/gal vs. $5/gal to dispose of.

We had a pit furnace and quench tank for aluminum- you could stand next to the quench tank, it was like being in a municipal pool, the chlorine smell was so strong.

They can't call municipal water hazardous waste- get a better test.

They did what is labeled as a HVOC Test, basically looks for a bunch or organics/ inorganics and water chemisty.

Not sure there is an option for another test but I guess its worth asking. Do you happen to have copies of any of the test results so I have a better idea of what to ask for?

guest · Nov 17, 2017

Bmiley said:
..Not sure there is an option for another test but I guess its worth asking. Do you happen to have copies of any of the test results so I have a better idea of what to ask for?

No I don't, sorry. What they are concerned about is chlorinated paraffins- you should check that your coolant is not loaded with CP's.

The simple tests don't differentiate, so the chlorine in the water looks like CP, but it isn't. As mentioned prev. by Gobo, you can make a comparison between muni water and DI water- test them both with the same coolant and compare results.

DDoug · Nov 17, 2017

If your coolant has oil in it, I would get a skimmer, and get it out of there.

Give the used oil to a local garage that has a waste oil heater.

MrWhoopee · Nov 17, 2017

digger doug said:
If your coolant has oil in it, I would get a skimmer, and get it out of there.

Give the used oil to a local garage that has a waste oil heater.

To this point, I good friend does machinery repair and misc other trouble-shooting for the shop I used to own. They use skimmers on all the machines, so there has been a fair amount of waste oil to dispose of. He started an experiment using four 5 gal. buckets with spigots installed at the bottom. The oil from the skimmers is poured into the first, allowing it to separate until the bucket is full. The coolant is drained from the bottom as completely as possible and the oil transferred to the second bucket. The process continues. By the time it's reached the fourth bucket, the oil is quite clean and has no residual odor of rancid coolant. He then pours it into jugs and gives it to me to use as chainsaw bar oil. Way oil has very similar properties to bar oil. It saves me $8-10/gal. and they haven't had to ship any waste oil since he started this experiment. Win-win! I have so much bar oil now I'm giving it to my friends. In addition, because they're not having waste oil hauled (and tested), they can add a little bleach to keep the coolant fresh.

I HATE THE SMELL OF RANCID COOLANT!

Gobo · Nov 18, 2017

Have you been working with your coolant manufacturer? Generally, a good vendor will be happy to help you, even with free testing.

Bmiley · Nov 20, 2017

MrWhoopee said:
To this point, I good friend does machinery repair and misc other trouble-shooting for the shop I used to own. They use skimmers on all the machines, so there has been a fair amount of waste oil to dispose of. He started an experiment using four 5 gal. buckets with spigots installed at the bottom. The oil from the skimmers is poured into the first, allowing it to separate until the bucket is full. The coolant is drained from the bottom as completely as possible and the oil transferred to the second bucket. The process continues. By the time it's reached the fourth bucket, the oil is quite clean and has no residual odor of rancid coolant. He then pours it into jugs and gives it to me to use as chainsaw bar oil. Way oil has very similar properties to bar oil. It saves me $8-10/gal. and they haven't had to ship any waste oil since he started this experiment. Win-win! I have so much bar oil now I'm giving it to my friends. In addition, because they're not having waste oil hauled (and tested), they can add a little bleach to keep the coolant fresh.

I HATE THE SMELL OF RANCID COOLANT!

Nice, good to hear its being re-used!

We do skim, but what skims off is a mix of coolant and oil. As much as I like the idea of separating and re-using the oil its not really an option for us because of the quantity of oil and resources needed to process. We also like to drain, clean and refresh our coolant tanks every so often so we need to dispose of both coolant and oil so getting the vac truck to suck everything out is the best way to go.

DDoug · Nov 20, 2017

Bmiley said:
Nice, good to hear its being re-used!

We do skim, but what skims off is a mix of coolant and oil. As much as I like the idea of separating and re-using the oil its not really an option for us because of the quantity of oil and resources needed to process. We also like to drain, clean and refresh our coolant tanks every so often so we need to dispose of both coolant and oil so getting the vac truck to suck everything out is the best way to go.

If you like this convenience, you gotta pay for it.

Someone else IS separating it.

Bmiley · Nov 20, 2017

guest said:
No I don't, sorry. What they are concerned about is chlorinated paraffins- you should check that your coolant is not loaded with CP's.

The simple tests don't differentiate, so the chlorine in the water looks like CP, but it isn't. As mentioned prev. by Gobo, you can make a comparison between muni water and DI water- test them both with the same coolant and compare results.

Just asked our wast oil guys about another test, will see if anything comes of that.

Bmiley · Nov 20, 2017

digger doug said:
If you like this convenience, you gotta pay for it.

Someone else IS separating it.

We are fine paying for it, but the issue is that we cannot get a vac truck in because of the Cl level

AlfaGTA · Nov 20, 2017

I would be looking at the Way Lube....Believe that Vactra has Cl in it and while i am not a chemist I think its possible to leach Cl out of the oil, and though
you are skimming not sure that is eliminating the Cl ....
Machines age and ways wear, as they do you will have more way oil leakage into your sumps....

I would test some fresh coolant and mix in some of your way oil..let it stand for some time and decant the oil off the top then test the remaining coolant.

Cheers Ross

Cl levels in Coolant/ Waste Oil

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