Colchester Triumph Questions

FarmRepairs · Aug 1, 2014

Hello, I have some questions about a newly acquired Colchester Triumph I have here. The attached photo's show it in the condition I got it in and I figure it is at least 1930's/1940's era but I would like to pin down a bit more detail if possible. Does anyone know what/when this lathe is? Because of the screw cutting gearbox and power feed carriage and lack of clutch or brake levers on the headstock, it does not seem to match any of the photo's on the lathes.co.uk website. Also, the pulley arrangement at the back has an extra support on the non-driving end of the shaft that is not there on any of the other photo's I can find on the web. Even further, the selector lever for the thread cutting comes out from the bottom of the gearbox, not the side like all the others I can find.

I haven't yet found a serial number, partly because it is filthy and partly because I haven't looked hard enough yet. I was hoping someone might recognize the general model and accessories though. Are these any good?

It came with metric screw cutting threads and has a tumble reverse lever . The motor temporarily fitted to it is only 1hp but this is much to small and can't even run it up to full speed in the high gears with no load.

Thanks in advance.

stonehaven · Aug 1, 2014

nice project you got there, would be nice if someone could shed some light on it.

JRIowa · Aug 1, 2014

Page Title
JR

FarmRepairs · Aug 2, 2014

Thanks JR - this is close but I can't figure out why this one has the screw cutting gearbox which apparently didn't exist back then. It is also lacking the spindle clutch that was present on early models but absent on later models. So somehow I seem to have got a late model triumph with no clutch and an odd-ball screw-cutting gearbox, but still with tumble reverse and the old steel-tipped gearchange levers. And the weird double-ended support for the input shaft remains a mystery.

Thanks again, FR.

Greenwud · Aug 2, 2014

FarmRepairs said:
Hello, I have some questions about a newly acquired Colchester Triumph I have here. The attached photo's show it in the condition I got it in and I figure it is at least 1930's/1940's era but I would like to pin down a bit more detail if possible. Does anyone know what/when this lathe is? Because of the screw cutting gearbox and power feed carriage and lack of clutch or brake levers on the headstock, it does not seem to match any of the photo's on the lathes.co.uk website. Also, the pulley arrangement at the back has an extra support on the non-driving end of the shaft that is not there on any of the other photo's I can find on the web. Even further, the selector lever for the thread cutting comes out from the bottom of the gearbox, not the side like all the others I can find.

I haven't yet found a serial number, partly because it is filthy and partly because I haven't looked hard enough yet. I was hoping someone might recognize the general model and accessories though. Are these any good?

It came with metric screw cutting threads and has a tumble reverse lever . The motor temporarily fitted to it is only 1hp but this is much to small and can't even run it up to full speed in the high gears with no load.

Thanks in advance.

The serial number should be at the RH end of the bed, between the v and flat ways.
They are a nice old 'bus, versatile and solid. No fancy stuff, the machine I own was built in 1949 and is a flat belt drive. I thus can't comment on the geared headstock or qc gearbox but the basics are good.
The info on the site is a reflection on catalogues; what was sent out depended on what was available, and also where it was going. Lots of old model stuff was dumped in this part of the world, and lots of left overs made into machines.
The accessories send out were a faceplate, catch plate, fixed steady, travelling steady and maybe a Taylor chuck. A set of change gears for non qc gearboxes.

FarmRepairs · Aug 3, 2014

Cool, thanks for the info Greenwud. Once it is cleaned up, I'll need to get it to run up to maybe 1000 rpm for turning small stuff. In your experience, is the gearbox/spindle/chuck etc good for this speed? Thanks again, FR.

Greenwud · Aug 3, 2014

FarmRepairs said:
Cool, thanks for the info Greenwud. Once it is cleaned up, I'll need to get it to run up to maybe 1000 rpm for turning small stuff. In your experience, is the gearbox/spindle/chuck etc good for this speed? Thanks again, FR.

Mine has the plain bearings and oil cups so it doesn't get run over about 500 rpm; can't comment on the geared head but it does specify 300 rpm as the pulley speed to give the spindle speeds indicated so that gives an idea. I doubt it has more than a rudimentary oil pump if at all.
Should be good with sharp HSS tooling at small diameters. Centre height is marked on the inside face of the tail stock to assist setting.

matt_isserstedt · Aug 3, 2014

I am admiring your peeled logs for transport rollers, very cool!

Tony's site doesn't say whether its a plain bearing (bronze) or a roller bearing headstock. My guess would be that by the time a quick change gearbox was available as an option, you'd be into roller bearings. You could carefully clean off the headstock cover and remove it to see. I would think 1000 rpms would not be a problem with a roller bearing headstock, but my experience is like Greenwud's in that you can do a lot of good work with less, just down to what I consider super tiny parts, lets just say less than 1/8" OD to put a number out there, where there might be a problem.

FarmRepairs · Aug 4, 2014

Cool, thanks for the input guys, good point about the cutting speed- I'd better have a proper fiddle with it before I get too excited about speeding it up. You're right, 500rpm is probably fine, anything less than 1/8" is called spaghetti in my vocabulary and belongs on the dinner table, not in a lathe chuck!

The peeled logs idea worked very well in this case, even over rough ground. I'm on a farm so they are just old broken fenceposts leftover from some stroppy stock (of the animal variant, not steel). And to move the roller arrangement I just towed it with the motorbike while a helper cycled the logs back-to-front as we advanced. Easy, rugged and amusing. Maybe a bit like the Triumph itself from what I can gather.

FarmRepairs · Aug 31, 2014

Hi again to anyone still looking at this thread. I've taken the top cover off the gearbox and what I found is in the attached photos. My question is what kind of headstock bearings are these? Plain or roller? Also, if you look at the back of the chuck there is no apparent means of getting a C-spanner onto it, so how do I get it off? I've tried grabbing a piece of flat bar in the jaws and using a mallet to tap it around, but no luck, it just turns the spindle. Any ideas? Thanks!

Greenwud · Aug 31, 2014

FarmRepairs said:
Hi again to anyone still looking at this thread. I've taken the top cover off the gearbox and what I found is in the attached photos. My question is what kind of headstock bearings are these? Plain or roller? Also, if you look at the back of the chuck there is no apparent means of getting a C-spanner onto it, so how do I get it off? I've tried grabbing a piece of flat bar in the jaws and using a mallet to tap it around, but no luck, it just turns the spindle. Any ideas? Thanks!

Looks clean.
The spindle bearings have the same double lock ring arrangement as the flat belt machine so plain bearings is my pick. What can you see if you look down the oil holes?
Re the chuck, try a knocking the jaws onto block of wood on the bed at the back- rotate the spindle to do this. Very simple on a flatbelt machine; don't be tempted to lock or jam the gears.
Heat and penetrating oil will help, as will patience and gentle tapping.

FarmRepairs · Sep 2, 2014

Thanks Greenwud. Looking down the oil holes of the input shaft and layshaft bearing shows a spiral groove and plain bearings, photo attached. The oil holes on the headstock are too deep to see anything down. Oh also got the serial number, it dates the machine at 1949. FR.

FarmRepairs · Sep 2, 2014

Sorry one more thing - I've noticed the lead screw has about 5mm axial movement side-to-side, which I think is bad. By this I mean that if I engage the half nut and then gently wind the carriage it can push the lead screw side to side by about 5mm. Does this mean then when cutting metric threads and so reversing the lathe to return the carriage that this slop will affect the restart position of the cut each time? Or will it always take up on one end of the play and be no problem? Is this movement normal for an old colchester? Thanks.

baldwin · Sep 2, 2014

It shouldn't affect the starting position as the load of shifting the carriage should take up the movement before you hit the job. There must be an easily replaceable thrust bearing in there which is the culprit.

Looks nice in the headstock anyway.

Steve

Greenwud · Sep 4, 2014

FarmRepairs said:
Sorry one more thing - I've noticed the lead screw has about 5mm axial movement side-to-side, which I think is bad. By this I mean that if I engage the half nut and then gently wind the carriage it can push the lead screw side to side by about 5mm. Does this mean then when cutting metric threads and so reversing the lathe to return the carriage that this slop will affect the restart position of the cut each time? Or will it always take up on one end of the play and be no problem? Is this movement normal for an old colchester? Thanks.

Not normal, there should be two fluted nuts or similar at the headstock end of the lead screw which allow the end float in the lead screw to be adjusted and fixed. The tail stock end floats freely. Unsure how this works with the gearbox.

Superslot · Jan 9, 2019

Hi I am about to restore a similar machine, does it start on a clutch or on the motor?

john.k · Jan 9, 2019

A roundhead Triumph does have a clutch in the "input" pulley......so the motor can run continuous.........but the original linkage included an on/off electric contactor with the clutch lever.....called a "safety" something or other...........IMHO,junk this and ,start/stop the motor with a pushbutton contactor,and controll the machine with the clutch lever......IMHO ,all the roundheads had a weak threading arrangement...as in poor ,often worn ,often broken......another serious fault was loosening of the rack under the bed due to insufficient fastening.

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