Connecting 2 prebuilt 50 ton presses together

Kid404 · Jan 16, 2018

Would it be ok to weld 2 50 ton presses together so that they work in parallel? Would that give me 100 tons? How would I connect them together for even pressure if they are both pneumatic?

Garwood · Jan 16, 2018

Did you entirely ignore the advice given to you in your last thread or did you dismiss it because you did not understand?

I would suggest a career path change from aircraft manufacturing to something less likely to kill people.

Kid404 · Jan 16, 2018

Trying to learn here and if all is not possible for me I'll tell my boss to f off

Kid404 · Jan 16, 2018

So school me and give me knowledge

B-Mathews · Jan 16, 2018

Kid404 said:
So school me and give me knowledge

Knowledge is earned not given!! Smart ass responses will not get you much around here or any place for that matter!!

That said the idea of using two 50 ton press's as one unit is an absolutely bad idea. The thought would have never of crossed my mind honestly. UGH, If you don't have the needed press send it out. Not worth hurting or killing some one. Fucking around.

Bosses idea or your? Either way very dangerous.

surplusjohn · Jan 16, 2018

sometimes you have to do some studying on your own to know enough to ask meaniful questions. book learn the basics.
study pneumatic presses, presses, 4 post, fluid power, etc. look at texts and company literature, then you might be able to ask a question in a way that a knowledgable person can understand and give you a meaningful answer back. People here are very generous with their knowledge, but an unformed question pretty much gets ignored.

Kid404 · Jan 16, 2018

Not being sarcastic, seriously school me. Give me press theory give me engineering behind why this wouldn't work I want to learn

SIP6A · Jan 16, 2018

To get 100 tons out of two 50 ton press’s you would have to weld to one press on top of the other one so one ram could push on the other.

HuFlungDung · Jan 16, 2018

Are you gluing something together with this press or forming something? The "100 tons" requirement could mean a few different things. If you really have to balance that 100 tons on a focal point of 1 square inch, then you need a very sturdy, well guided single cylinder. But if you have to spread that 100 tons out over a couple of square feet, then maybe there are other ways using more than one cylinder. Part of the trick is to understand that a hydraulic pump pushes oil to the least loaded area of the system. The pressure is created by the resistance of the load, not by the pump: The pump just wants to move oil around in a flow. The pump always operates at the lowest pressure it takes to overcome the load resistance or else the pump is defeated.

So that is why dual cylinders working independently (from one pump source) may not extend at the same rate (the one with the highest pressure resistance stops taking on oil), thus wreaking havoc with your press frame, dies, whatever, if you expected them to move together in your initial planning.

tnmgcarbide · Jan 16, 2018

sounds like a project for the "mythbusters" . it would be much more interesting to have your frankenpress
attempt to burst a 300 cu/ft oxygen cylinder .

that could be entertaining.

Chip Chester · Jan 16, 2018

Kid404 said:
Not being sarcastic, seriously school me. Give me press theory give me engineering behind why this wouldn't work I want to learn

No sweat. So we don't unnecessarily duplicate your efforts, please post just the first dozen links where you've tried to find that information via independent research. Thanks.

TDegenhart · Jan 16, 2018

SIP6A said:
To get 100 tons out of two 50 ton press’s you would have to weld to one press on top of the other one so one ram could push on the other.

WRONG, WRONG WRONG!! All you get is 50 tons. They would have to act in parallel, not ser

Tom

jerholz · Jan 16, 2018

I think it works exactly unlike this.

The Simpsons - Bart's Megaphone Testing - YouTube

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

JRIowa · Jan 16, 2018

Kid404 said:
Not being sarcastic, seriously school me. Give me press theory give me engineering behind why this wouldn't work I want to learn

OK, I've got 2 engineering degrees and 50 years experience. Should be back to Iowa middle of February. The problem is, you just want answers, you don't want to learn.

I'll help you out some. For the rubber parts, contact Bruckman Rubber in Hastings, NE. They can provide the tooling and do short run parts. Then, if you want aluminum fab'd parts, you've got all of the irrigation manufacturing in the middle of the state. There's T&L, Hastings, Lindsay, and Reinke. All of these places are extremely experienced in aluminum fab, forming, and welding. I left Valley out because their into so much other stuff they wouldn't mess with you.

For the budget you're talking about, you'll be lucky to purchase the tooling you'll need, let alone a decent press.

BTW, I also worked on kit planes in another life. Probably before your time, I made Kawasaki conversions for the BD-5. God, that was 40 years ago, I am old.
JR

TDegenhart · Jan 16, 2018

The issue is not can you get 100 tons by paralleling two 50 ton cylinders, its to do it SAFELY! Look at how big presses are built. They are heavy with large sections.

For giggles, let's list the steps to couple two 50 ton H frame presses. These will need to have an opening of 3-4 feet and a width between the posts of 5 feet(your 4x6 requirement) minimum.

They would have to have a common base, say 4 inch deep H-beams welded together. Space the frames 4 feet apart. Next you will have to align the lower and upper bolsters so that working bed is not twisted. Now you build the working platens. This is a welded together, top and bottom, bed of H beams with each having a depth of 5 inches or so. lying on top of these, a solid plate of steel 1 inch thick, more if you want T-slots. This plate is rigidly bolted to H-frame platens.

I would start with these numbers and calculated all of the forces and force-couples to make sure the press is safe. These numbers may appear large, but don't forget you are spanning a fairly large area.

I don't know what your background is, I suspect its not mechanical engineering.

Tom

JRIowa · Jan 16, 2018

Damn, I almost forgot. I do know a place that put 2, 500 ton hydraulic press brakes together. In this case, it was end to end. IIRC, back when they started it was 2 Cincinatti press brakes 30' long each. Don't know what they use nowm, that was 30 years ago.
Call them up, they might tell you: Valmont High-Mast Light Towers
JR

Scruffy887 · Jan 16, 2018

2 pneumatic presses with 50 tons each? Straight pneumatic? How big would that piston need to be?

PeteM · Jan 16, 2018

Kid404 said:
Would it be ok to weld 2 50 ton presses together so that they work in parallel? Would that give me 100 tons? How would I connect them together for even pressure if they are both pneumatic?

I'd use JB Weld to weld them together. The 5 minute stuff. Also fills that annoying gap between two old pieces of equipment.

That way you won't have to worry about regular weld inclusions, which rod to use, where to attach them, heck, even fatigue failure as you cycle. Much less dual safety interlocks, die alignment, and a hundred other details small and large.

Instead, it will pretty much "school" you almost (that 5 minutes) right away. Even faster than anyone here . . .

DDoug · Jan 16, 2018

Scruffy887 said:
2 pneumatic presses with 50 tons each? Straight pneumatic? How big would that piston need to be?

Use 55 gallon drums....

B-Mathews · Jan 16, 2018

Kid404 said:
Not being sarcastic, seriously school me. Give me press theory give me engineering behind why this wouldn't work I want to learn

Screw off, dude!! Find the info yourself!!! Danm punck expect everyone to do their own works. For fuck's sake use your Google fue KID!!!

Connecting 2 prebuilt 50 ton presses together

Plastic

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Hot Rolled

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Titanium

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Cast Iron

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