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Custmer Taking Apart Tooling?

Davis In SC

Diamond
Joined
Sep 14, 2005
Location
South Carolina USA
Just want a few opinions.. Build or repair a machine/fixture/die, etc... Send to local customer.. Problem or not, one of their guys wants to jump in and start taking things apart... Trying to prove something.. He looks for something to nitpick. Personal vendetta it seems to me. I will stand behind my work, and make any adjustments or changes needed..
If I tear into the engine of a new car, I am sure the warranty is void, should things I make be any different?
 
To me the point is ;- does your product make good parts - conform to expectations etc etc etc? if it does, ........then there's no need to take it apart etc etc etc.
 
To me the point is ;- does your product make good parts - conform to expectations etc etc etc? if it does, ........then there's no need to take it apart etc etc etc.

Often there are minor adjustments to be made, but that is part of the process.. Final fitting of a fixture to fit a part, etc. I am almost available to do the task on short notice. I often leave some "Safety" stock, for fitting things. and other provisions for minor adjustments.

It just seems disrespectful to jump in and start tampering with someone's work, without asking. When I worked in shops, we always let the person that did a job make any revisions, if possible.
 
We had a shop making fixtures who was notorious for leaving bolts loose. We would go over every tool on arrival.
 
If you delivered it to the customer, it's theirs, right.

They can do with it as they wish.

If you're getting unreasonable nitpicking (wasting your time), up the quote next time.

If they return it to you in pieces, of course there will be an assembly and evaluation fee.

If your concerned that the customer will damage it, have a conversation about it.

If it's just about respect, get over it (as long as they pay the bill).
 
I'd be concerned if they dis-assemble upon receipt, and then
complain about non conforming.

Can you apply torque marks (with a dab of paint) on the fasteners ?

To find a very unique color (so they cannot duplicate) use
some nail polish from the wife, get something with some
glitter in it.
 
If they pay for it then as soon as it leaves your hands is is none of your concern...but it sounds like you provide additional servicing of your product which is a great thing...but...

You can establish a "policy" where in if anyone opens it up that you will charge a flat rate inspection fee.

You determine some way to "seal" it via paint on fasteners or other such thing then explain in clear language that if it is opened up for some reason then you are called to seevice it you need to tear it completely apart to insure no crud or anything else is inside as you have no control over what they do.

Be reasonable in this.

If it takes 1 hour to tear down and assemble then charge 1 hour fee for that.

Also make it clear that the fee is always charged if the seal is broken, you inspect and confirm before any action taken.

(Paint many screws so they backup each other to avoid false breaks)

Also make it clear if modified in any way then the part is considered SCRAP and it can be determined by quote to repair or replace.

Get ithe process signed and or placed on any delivery receipt for any item going forward.

This is in alignment with most warranty type agreements.

Make it clear they are free to do whatever they want but expecting you to service it there will be rules and fees.

If they have issue with it just explain their service is staying at same level but you no longer will absorb the costs associated to their intrusions into the product.

Side note is you have no way of knowing if they are taking your tooling to your competition and seeking bids on your work.

If you did the engineering on the product then you may own that and if product is on a production environment you could make a stink if someone copies your work.

Consider adding language to that effect on your delivery receipt that they sign when you hand them your work.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 
Hi All:
Something not obvious from the OP's post;
Davis in SC is a moldmaker by trade, and I assume he's mostly talking about plastic injection molds.

These tools are complex in ways most people cannot even begin to understand, and it's not always obvious how to take them apart properly.
An immense amount of expensive damage can be done to a tool by the "Take Out all the Bolts, Turn it Over and Shake it" method of disassembly.
Even more can be done by the "Beat it with a Hammer" method. and although you may think I'm exaggerating...I've dealt with it more than once in my career, and this from molders who really should know better.

So moldmakers are protective of their tooling by nature, and it's usually for a good reason.
I'm the same as Davis; it pisses me off to no end to see a quality tool I spent a lot of effort on, smashfucked by some dumbass with shit for brains and no clue about what he's just destroyed.

So yeah Davis, I'm with you on this one; keep the ignorant fucking mitts off the tools I built...I don't CARE who owns it; if it needs service send it back to me and I'll deal with it properly.
If I see evidence of that kind of abuse, I will document the damage and reject responsibility for the future performance of the tool in writing.

I've had a few squawks from customers over this hard-ass attitude but it's saved my bacon a few times too.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
www.vancouverwireedm.com
 
Hi All:
Something not obvious from the OP's post;
Davis in SC is a moldmaker by trade, and I assume he's mostly talking about plastic injection molds.

These tools are complex in ways most people cannot even begin to understand, and it's not always obvious how to take them apart properly.
An immense amount of expensive damage can be done to a tool by the "Take Out all the Bolts, Turn it Over and Shake it" method of disassembly.
Even more can be done by the "Beat it with a Hammer" method. and although you may think I'm exaggerating...I've dealt with it more than once in my career, and this from molders who really should know better.

So moldmakers are protective of their tooling by nature, and it's usually for a good reason.
I'm the same as Davis; it pisses me off to no end to see a quality tool I spent a lot of effort on, smashfucked by some dumbass with shit for brains and no clue about what he's just destroyed.

So yeah Davis, I'm with you on this one; keep the ignorant fucking mitts off the tools I built...I don't CARE who owns it; if it needs service send it back to me and I'll deal with it properly.
If I see evidence of that kind of abuse, I will document the damage and reject responsibility for the future performance of the tool in writing.

I've had a few squawks from customers over this hard-ass attitude but it's saved my bacon a few times too.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
www.vancouverwireedm.com
Thanks for the Support.. All it takes is a nick or ding to ruin an expensive part.. As I stated, I always stand behind my work, but it is hard to warrant against someone else damaging an expensive item. On the same note, I hate to start working on another makers tool, without their express permission. I prefer to let them fix any bugs. I don't want to get blamed for any damage or improper assembly.
 
Hi All:
Something not obvious from the OP's post;
Davis in SC is a moldmaker by trade, and I assume he's mostly talking about plastic injection molds.

These tools are complex in ways most people cannot even begin to understand, and it's not always obvious how to take them apart properly.
An immense amount of expensive damage can be done to a tool by the "Take Out all the Bolts, Turn it Over and Shake it" method of disassembly.
Even more can be done by the "Beat it with a Hammer" method. and although you may think I'm exaggerating...I've dealt with it more than once in my career, and this from molders who really should know better.

So moldmakers are protective of their tooling by nature, and it's usually for a good reason.
I'm the same as Davis; it pisses me off to no end to see a quality tool I spent a lot of effort on, smashfucked by some dumbass with shit for brains and no clue about what he's just destroyed.

So yeah Davis, I'm with you on this one; keep the ignorant fucking mitts off the tools I built...I don't CARE who owns it; if it needs service send it back to me and I'll deal with it properly.
If I see evidence of that kind of abuse, I will document the damage and reject responsibility for the future performance of the tool in writing.

I've had a few squawks from customers over this hard-ass attitude but it's saved my bacon a few times too.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
www.vancouverwireedm.com
Thanks for the Support.. All it takes is a nick or ding to ruin an expensive part.. As I stated, I always stand behind my work, but it is hard to warrant against someone else damaging an expensive item. On the same note, I hate to start working on another makers tool, without their express permission. I prefer to let them fix any bugs. I don't want to get blamed for any damage or improper assembly.
 
Hi All:
Something not obvious from the OP's post;
Davis in SC is a moldmaker by trade, and I assume he's mostly talking about plastic injection molds.

These tools are complex in ways most people cannot even begin to understand, and it's not always obvious how to take them apart properly.
An immense amount of expensive damage can be done to a tool by the "Take Out all the Bolts, Turn it Over and Shake it" method of disassembly.
Even more can be done by the "Beat it with a Hammer" method. and although you may think I'm exaggerating...I've dealt with it more than once in my career, and this from molders who really should know better.

So moldmakers are protective of their tooling by nature, and it's usually for a good reason.
I'm the same as Davis; it pisses me off to no end to see a quality tool I spent a lot of effort on, smashfucked by some dumbass with shit for brains and no clue about what he's just destroyed.

So yeah Davis, I'm with you on this one; keep the ignorant fucking mitts off the tools I built...I don't CARE who owns it; if it needs service send it back to me and I'll deal with it properly.
If I see evidence of that kind of abuse, I will document the damage and reject responsibility for the future performance of the tool in writing.

I've had a few squawks from customers over this hard-ass attitude but it's saved my bacon a few times too.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
www.vancouverwireedm.com

In another life... I had just repaired (minor minor, couple ejector pins, etc) a mold and put it back together, sent it out to be ran... Next day, problems with the parts so I go out to have a look, see the foreman with a hammer and screwdriver inside the mold... :eek:. Same thing working on stamping dies... got a burr here and there, go to check and see the operator fuc*ing around inside the die with screwdrivers, pliers, loosening strippers, etc.
 
In another life... I had just repaired (minor minor, couple ejector pins, etc) a mold and put it back together, sent it out to be ran... Next day, problems with the parts so I go out to have a look, see the foreman with a hammer and screwdriver inside the mold... :eek:. Same thing working on stamping dies... got a burr here and there, go to check and see the operator fuc*ing around inside the die with screwdrivers, pliers, loosening strippers, etc.
Those are the things that infuriate me.. Often, the toolmaker gets the blame, since the offending party (idiot that messed it up) often has a front line to management.
 
Hi again All:
I do laser welding repair on molds.
You wouldn't BELIEVE what I see pretty regularly.:bawling:

I swear, some people shouldn't even be allowed near anything delicate or expensive, especially not with implements of destruction in their hands.

In my experience, molders are among the premier creators of chaos and destruction when it comes to carefully built things.
We need to take away all their screwdrivers, crescent wrenches, Vise Grips, Leathermans, and hammers!

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
www.vancouverwireedm.com
 
But I have TS-16949 calibrated hammers, my screwdrivers work well as a chisel when needed and how do you work without vise-grips.
:)
"I've seen it done on u-tube so it must be right." :wall:
Bob

I did a special bending die, first one to make it on 3-d, and I took the time to make it all linked together, material sizes, bend radii etc. (so we could simply copy & change for the next die, with different dimensions).

Customer calls, said "First time we ever had one run right
the first time"....after initial run-off though, senior operator, got in there, hand grinder....made much more clearances so he could tweek it.
 
I did a special bending die, first one to make it on 3-d, and I took the time to make it all linked together, material sizes, bend radii etc. (so we could simply copy & change for the next die, with different dimensions).

Customer calls, said "First time we ever had one run right
the first time"....after initial run-off though, senior operator, got in there, hand grinder....made much more clearances so he could tweek it.

Years ago this same customer had a smartass kid employee that hated me..(Feeling was mutual).. He would not bother the molds, but any fixtures I built for them, he would always file, drill, sand, etc. on to "Improve"... Glad that little sh*t moved on to another employer. Sad thing was, he had potential, but such a bad attitude he was untrainable...
 
Had a similar problem. Delivered a resharpened stamping die to customer and first thing the operator did was to pull it open and remove the height stop we installed. Also a safety cover removed on another die.
Once a female operator tried to pull a heavy dieset from our truck, I had to yell at her as it would have fallen to the deck due to the lack of support of the fork truck. She was pissed, but no one got hurt from the avoided accident. I just don't know how some places get by without more accidents.
 
Hi All:
Not to hijack Davis' thread and just for fun, here are a couple of shots of "improvements" made by molders that came to me to try to resurrect after they didn't really work out.

The shot of the squashed ejector sleeve doesn't really fall into this category; it falls into the "be a magician" category, but it gives you a good idea where some of these guys are coming from with their level of knowledge and care.
BTW they refused to pay the bill after the welded sleeve didn't survive long after the repair even though I TOLD them is wasn't going to work.
I don't accept repair work from them anymore!

Ditto for the third shot
It is the result of digging out a stuck part with a screwdriver...anyone care to guess why the part was sticking??
How about guessing why it was sticking even worse after they they were finished.

My all time favourite is still the core they modified with the TIG welder and the pencil grinder...careful craftsmanship there for sure!
They wanted to shorten the thread by welding up the lead-out and recutting it to shorten it.
For some funny reason the molded caps wouldn't unscrew from the core anymore when they were done...gee I wonder why?

The runner and gate modification apparently didn't work any better after the mod than before...I was asked to bring it back to what it was before the molders got to it with the pencil grinder.

This is a small sample of pix I have and I've only taken pictures of a small subset of the welding I've done on molds over the years.
Enjoy the pictures!!
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
www.vancouverwireedm.com
 

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Hi Marcus,
Thanks for the pic shares. May I ask what we are seeing in the second photo with the sharpie markings on it? I'm not in your trade, but I respect it and it fascinates me. What's the approx diameter dimension of that part?
Thanks
Gus
 








 
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