Gibbs Die Casting auction in Henderson, KY...

Online at Bidspotter... but I had to see the items in person.... glad I did too....sort of.... what a joke. The only good machines sold sky high, but then, thanks either to moron internet bidders or rigged auction... so did the bad ones !

Examples...an early 90's Mori Seiki SL-20 turn center...looked ok in photos, but real life reveals it was very high hours and a parts machine...lots of important electronics removed from cabinet in the back. If not an online auction it would have brought maybe 1,000 bucks tops...but it went for over $15,000 as I recall. Makino HMC's missing Fanuc modules and gawd knows that else went for $9,000 each. Add 15 percent buyer's rip to those prices...plus loading fees.

The whole auction seemed suspect in that items that normally would start at $1,000 and run up to $8,000....started at $5,000. An ARL spectrometer that was missing the computer and software and probably the interface as well...went for $5,000....normally one in that situation that is most likely for parts only would go for nothing..500 bucks maybe.

Anyhoo... another wasted trip for me... but at least I know anything that seemed to be a deal at that auction, really was the opposite of a deal.

Was interesting walking around the Gibbs plant ... very high production facility.... robot loading $200,000 VMC's arranged in a circle around one robot arm, for example. Lots of activity.

I wonder how many death threats these online auctioneers get when the guys who buy the gutted machines that look good in the pics get fired for paying 15k for a pile of junk? I saw a line of Mima wrappers that looked good but were gutted go for half of new to an on line bidder, but they were worth 0. As far as I am concerned it is not buyer beware in that case since the condition is in effect hidden to the bidder.

I'd have to say your best bet would be to personally attend the inspection day, then go back home and bid online.

I looked over a 5ton single-girder bridge crane x 36' span for sale at a closed injection molding plant in Elberton, GA which sold last week, I couldn't believe it "sold" for basically $10k (sale price + GA tax + 15%BP + rigging to get down) seeing as the span width (track width) is a very customized thing and of course could be modified but not without considerable additional expense, plus then pay to have it transported and re-erected elsewhere.

The runway rails and the electrification bars went as a separate lot and were not included in above pricing as there was a 10t bridge on the same rails.

I guess I don't understand the used crane market very well* but it sure seemed like a high-priced item.


* I've accumulated enough parts that I think I would need to build a 3t bridge crane of similar span, less the long, heavy steel for the bridge and end trucks. Parts cost including electric hoist around $500 so far. I estimated the overhead steelwork cost to be approx $2000-2500 so these figures have my thinking biased.

surplusjohn said:

I wonder how many death threats these online auctioneers get when the guys who buy the gutted machines that look good in the pics get fired for paying 15k for a pile of junk? I saw a line of Mima wrappers that looked good but were gutted go for half of new to an on line bidder, but they were worth 0. As far as I am concerned it is not buyer beware in that case since the condition is in effect hidden to the bidder.

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Before the auction started I mentioned to the auctioneer (Stuart B. Millner...appeared to be "the man" himself) that more than a few of the CNC machines were basically parts machines and that the internet bidders were in for a rude awakening if they (Millner) didn't mention this beforehand. His reply was something to the effect of "oh, they always inspect beforehand".

My reply to that was "oh no they don't" and I proceeded with some examples similar to yours where there is no freakin way the bidder inspected beforehand. His response to that was "well, they will only do that one time"

The icing on the cake is that when they got to the aforementioned Mori Seiki, not only did they not mention it was missing parts*, damned if the co-auctioneer didn't play it up..saying things like "great machine, blah, blah..." Millner did nothing to correct him of course

Downright crooked really...

===========================

*And to anyone that might be thinking "well, maybe they just didn't know it was missing parts...".... the Mori was wedged in a seperate warehouse where pretty much every machine in there was a parts machine. Also the electrical cabinet was wide open and it would have been apparent to even a novice that there were things missing in there...wires hanging out all over the place, gaps in the panel, etc.

a good portion of the used machinery I used to sell was in "whatever" condition, ie it was what it was, but I always revealed that , ie photos of stripped controls, bad mechanicals etc. of course that is why I never got rich at it.

Milner, theres the problem. I have had some run ins with them.

The most interesting one was a stock rack full of stock. $500. Someone bought the rack for $500 and left the stock. I tried to buy the stock. $750! What? "Yes it is worth more now that you dont have to take the rack"

On all the larger machines if they did not get what they wanted (above dealer retail) they would haul them to the main warehouse in the midwest.

As for the auctioneer running his mouth about great machine and all that, should be illegal.

At the beggining of the sale I am sure they said this "as is where is, sale day announcements take precedent" Then during the sale they hammer away about how some machine is so nice. Then you buy it and find out it is broke. When confronted they claim ignorance. "we are not machinist we didnt know!" Well you went on about how nice it was, didnt you? "Well yes but as is remember? If it was your auction you would want us to do it this way!"

If they just sell it then as is. If they start the BS about how nice it is then it should have a waranty.

Don,

This is Jason in Albion, you should have come bye being that close to Albion. I was to busy to go but, sounds like it would have been a waste of time, i went to one Milner auction before, if you think Myron gets high prices, boy at that auction 8 year old Alliant knee mills in good condition were bring within $300.00 of new price, and not just 1 but 15 or so.

demoj21 said:

Don,

This is Jason in Albion, you should have come bye being that close to Albion. .

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I thought about you...but couldn't remember the name of your town. But it did "feel" like I must be close to your place, so I was hoping you would show up. Just how close are you to there ?

Sucks when auctions suck. I don't even travel that far for them but sometimes you put alot of effort into an auction. Nearly all day waiting around for stuff to be up for bid. Sitting on your thumbs all day sometimes. Need some kind of auction camper where it has all the comforts of home but the rigging and trailer to carry the potential items home. Maybe someday.

Don,

We are about an 1and half hours from there. I probably could of sent you home with something.Maybe next time. Jason.

demoj21 said:

We are about an 1and half hours from there. I probably could of sent you home with something.

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The something would have to have fit in a Corvette ! But yeah I would have loved visiting with you guys again..oh well...

I read this thread when I was thinking about going to the Stuart Millner auction today at Kennametal in Latrobe, PA...I was NOT impressed with Millner, in fact, I'm a little upset over their antics, since I basically wasted the entire day at their auction, but maybe I can entertain you guys...

SMTW universal grinder, torn apart, and they are talking it up, obsessing over the details, gets auction guy to get tape measure out to check the center distance, etc. Ends up selling for $5500 to someone on the internet...they never mention the wheelhead is torn apart...Monarch 10EE (believe it was a 1946), one thing I was after, again torn apart, but this time missing the parts. No cross slide, compound, handle, dial, etc. etc. Otherwise a real nice PARTS machine...thinking it was going to go for 200-500...ends up selling for $1500 to someone again on the internet, and again Millner never said anything about the missing parts...but with that one, you would have to be on something to see its not all there. Chiller outside, looked very nice, not old at all. They are saying ITS BRAND NEW! Maybe, I guess they ran the lines and everything to it, and then never used it? But what really upset me was that I was also there after a surface grinder, they are going painfully slow, about 100 lots in an hour and half. Finally get to the grinder I want. I was not impressed was in worst shape than in the pics. They say 1K opening bid. No one bids. They say 500. No one bids. They say pass, I say, I'll give you $50 for it! They say "the least amount we are going to take for an opening bid is $500" That really upset me there, waiting around that whole time to be told that! Guy comes up to me afterwards and asked me what happened. Told him. He said he doesn't like this auctioneer either. Glad to see I'm not the only one. There was some more stuff in the sale towards the end, but as slow as they were going, and the antics they were doing, I left early.

On the postive side, got to see some interesting stuff, the Maho CNC mill had around 63,000 hours on it!!! I was thinking that was high, but when I got to looking at the Agie WEDM they had, it had around 74,000 hours on it! There was alot of nice machinery in the plant they weren't selling but transferring to other plants...as you might imagine, for the most part they were getting rid of their junk! And doing quite well with at that task with Millner!

Eric

Machinery_E said:

SMTW universal grinder, torn apart, and they are talking it up, obsessing over the details, gets auction guy to get tape measure out to check the center distance, etc. Ends up selling for $5500 to someone on the internet...they never mention the wheelhead is torn apart...Monarch 10EE (believe it was a 1946), one thing I was after, again torn apart, but this time missing the parts. No cross slide, compound, handle, dial, etc. etc. Otherwise a real nice PARTS machine...thinking it was going to go for 200-500...ends up selling for $1500 to someone again on the internet, and again Millner never said anything about the missing parts...

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All SMTW machines are made in China.
Re Monarch 10ee...wow...I saw the photo..looked like a 200 dollar one to me too...

It seems Milner has somehow taken the throne from Asset Sales as the "AOL of auctioneers"...where all the newbies come out to play..

Are online buyers really that stupid and gulible?

Maybe I should start an online only auction co. and not disclose my whereabouts. Think of the money to be made from all the suckers.

Olympia Brewery auction 2004- Dovebid. My associate TF is high bid on Peerless saw, Arboga drill, DoAll vertical. He has 2 ton truck and loads the Peerless. Other two items are floor above- about twenty minutes lift truck time max for each. Dove informs TF loadout fee is $3000.00 for these items. Yes, the auctioneer stated load out fees would be added in presale remarks. He did not specify individual items fees. TF is mellow guy-turns and walks out leaving paid for machines to Dove.

It seems Milner has somehow taken the throne from Asset Sales as the "AOL of auctioneers"...where all the newbies come out to play..

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Could very well be...I was standing next to two guys after the EE sold...one was saying to the other one, nice little lathe...the other one was going, yes...after a pause the other guy said, where's the part that holds the tool? Didn't hear them say anymore after that revelation...

Dove informs TF loadout fee is $3000.00 for these items.

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Now that is crazy! I think I would have tried to have gotten them out like he did with the Peerless...

Machinery_E said:

I was standing next to two guys after the EE sold...one was saying to the other one, nice little lathe...the other one was going, yes...after a pause the other guy said, where's the part that holds the tool? Didn't hear them say anymore after that revelation...

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LOL... if I had been there and heard that, an "education" would have followed...

Mebfab said:

The most interesting one was a stock rack full of stock. $500. Someone bought the rack for $500 and left the stock. I tried to buy the stock. $750! What? "Yes it is worth more now that you dont have to take the rack"

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surprised you didn't approach the buyer of the racks, by all rights it was his stock to sell or dispose of.... beyond that, what was the auctioneer doing re-selling someone else's property?

My one and only Millner auction was at a pump manufacturers sell out. Same deal machines that were to be sold off were all junk and selling for big bucks. I did end up buying several motors that were new on pallets pretty cheap.
During the auction we come up to a deep well pump that was sitting upright in a stand. This pump was maybe 8" or so in diameter and about 5 feet tall or so. Looked like a normal deep well pump enlarged about 1000%. Of course the auctioneers are stating that here is a new pump ready to be installed all that crap. Well the bidding goes nuts and if I recall the thing sells for about 2000.00 bucks. Once the crowd of dingalings moves on I got to looking the thing over and there is NOTHING inside of the pump and nothing inside of the motor end either. The guy that had bought it was standing nearby and I said come here and look this over close. He stopped the auction and confronted the auctioneers about it and got it erased off his number. They tried to resell it with everybody knowing it had been a display pump that was in the company office. No bids. I would assume junking johnny got it. The rest of the auction while mostly mishmash everything went cheap.


tim

The original owner of the stock + rack said "dont want It" So I told the owner I would take it. At that point the auctioneer (actually liquidator in this case) ran over at such a speed he dialated time around him. The rack was then company property because it was "abandoned" Hence the attempt to deal.